[kpbrown31]

Is it just me or is the Summit 2821 version of the cam much different? The valve lift looks considerably less, plus they mention a rough idle and the need for a 2500 stall.

I'm trying to buy an 041 replacement to throw in my 461 build. I will be running the factory larger chamber cast iron heads that came on the 455. I've seen posts on here that most of the 041 reproduction cams perform somewhat the same, so I was just going to try and find a deal on one and roll with that. This is a mild, strictly street motor.

Are people still happy with the Crower 60919 even though they dropped the LSA to 112, down from 113? Doesn't seem like that would help my street manners. I always worry about my power brakes and if I end up putting AC on the car down the road.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by kpbrown31

Is it just me or is the Summit 2821 version of the cam much different? The valve lift looks considerably less, plus they mention a rough idle and the need for a 2500 stall.

I'm trying to buy an 041 replacement to throw in my 461 build. I will be running the factory larger chamber cast iron heads that came on the 455. I've seen posts on here that most of the 041 reproduction cams perform somewhat the same, so I was just going to try and find a deal on one and roll with that. This is a mild, strictly street motor.

Are people still happy with the Crower 60919 even though they dropped the LSA to 112, down from 113? Doesn't seem like that would help my street manners. I always worry about my power brakes and if I end up putting AC on the car down the road.

Can you post what spec you are looking at for the Summit 2821? When I do a Google search it shows .470 lift. Which is the same as the 041 is with 1.5:1 rocker arms

Stan

[kpbrown31]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Can you post what spec you are looking at for the Summit 2821? When I do a Google search it shows .470 lift. Which is the same as the 041 is with 1.5:1 rocker arms

Stan

You’re right, I was probably looking at a different cam when I saw something other than .470 lift. But you can see they still recommend a 3000 stall. I do have a 2500 laying around that I could probably put in but I was hoping to stay stock. Maybe that stall recommendation is for a 400. I bet I’m on the shy side of their 120lb of recommended seat pressure, too. Check out this page from Summit Racing https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-2821

I had a shop check my spring rates, combustion chamber volume, etc when they did a valve job and put new guides in but for the life of me I can’t find my notes anywhere. I recently moved and I think it was lost in the shuffle. I know they weren’t quite 120lb though

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by kpbrown31

You’re right, I was probably looking at a different cam when I saw something other than .470 lift. But you can see they still recommend a 3000 stall. I do have a 2500 laying around that I could probably put in but I was hoping to stay stock. Maybe that stall recommendation is for a 400. I bet I’m on the shy side of their 120lb of recommended seat pressure, too. Check out this page from Summit Racing https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-2821

I had a shop check my spring rates, combustion chamber volume, etc when they did a valve job and put new guides in but for the life of me I can’t find my notes anywhere. I recently moved and I think it was lost in the shuffle. I know they weren’t quite 120lb though

Yes, I do see that.

Good question.

By looking at their cam specs, I don't see anything that is different than if you were able to buy a real Pontiac 041 cam.

Stan

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by kpbrown31

Is it just me or is the Summit 2821 version of the cam much different?

Are people still happy with the Crower 60919 even though they dropped the LSA to 112, down from 113? Doesn't seem like that would help my street manners. I always worry about my power brakes and if I end up putting AC on the car down the road.

That Summit 2821 is identical to the Melling SPC-8 041 cam, both ground by CMC in Michigan, and ground on the same cam core. Might as well pick the cheaper one, there is no difference.

The 60919 version with the LSA moved in on 112 has more aggressive profiles with less seat timing than 041, the idle quality is better than an 041. 60919 does not need Rhoad’s lifter for most bigger cube engines, is a more modern design, and is a better option if you only have a 2500 stall.

[kpbrown31]

Originally Posted by Jay S

That Summit 2821 is identical to the Melling SPC-8 041 cam, both ground by CMC in Michigan, and ground on the same cam core. Might as well pick the cheaper one, there is no difference.

The 60919 version with the LSA moved in on 112 has more aggressive profiles with less seat timing than 041, the idle quality is better than an 041. 60919 does not need Rhoad’s lifter for most bigger cube engines, is a more modern design, and is a better option if you only have a 2500 stall.

That's right, I recall you mentioning that in a past post on these cams. I knew they had to have another company grinding for them. Similar to how the Summit SBC fuel pumps....pulled out a Summit box...but have the Holley part number stamped into the side of them.

Do the Summit 2821 cams like Rhoad's lifters? I already have standard lifters sitting on my shop shelf that I was planning to run. If so, maybe the 60919 cam is my best option + my 2500 stall.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by kpbrown31

That's right, I recall you mentioning that in a past post on these cams. I knew they had to have another company grinding for them. Similar to how the Summit SBC fuel pumps....pulled out a Summit box...but have the Holley part number stamped into the side of them.

Do the Summit 2821 cams like Rhoad's lifters? I already have standard lifters sitting on my shop shelf that I was planning to run. If so, maybe the 60919 cam is my best option + my 2500 stall.

More or less what I said in that other post, the 041 cams like the Summit 2822/Melling SPC-8 have a lot of seat timing (292*, 303* @.006” tappet) and often perform better with Rhoads lifters. The current 112 LSA version of the 60919 doesn’t have as much seat timing (around 286*,295* @.006”), and the narrower LSA responds better to a bit more cam advance. It does not really need Rhoads lifters with bigger cube engines even down into the uppers 8s compression.

[JB Eng Wis]

Anyone have duration numbers @ .200" for the Crower 60919 vs the SPC-8 vs 041 ??

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by JB Eng Wis

Anyone have duration numbers @ .200" for the Crower 60919 vs the SPC-8 vs 041 ??

I don’t know what an original 041 had at .2”. If the Crane version was the closest copy I believe it is in the low 140*s @.2”. A 60919 and the SPC-8 both run about 136* at .2”.

The 60919 varies more than a SPC-8 on its durations. The last 60919 I checked measured 134* @.2”. The SPC-8 is ground on a fancy CNC machine that grinds the entire cam in a few minutes, and do not vary much. The Crower cam is ground on a much older machine, and can vary a great deal. It is a good idea the check the 60919 over closer if you want good results. I have sent one back, it was junk.

[steve25]

Ames has the 041 made by Melling’s for only 40 bucks more then the Crower.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by steve25

Ames has the 041 made by Melling’s for only 40 bucks more then the Crower.

Melling doesn’t grind any flat tappet cams. They are all ground by CMC. Ames is likely another white box cam from CMC. I am all for buying something from Ames, but don’t expect anything different versus a Summit 2822.

[steve25]

This what’s stated in there catalog so I am just passing it along .

[Stan Weiss]

Using Cam Dr data from H-O measured in 1990.

Stan

[JB Eng Wis]

Stan, what cam was this, That H-O measured?? Is that the GM 041?

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by JB Eng Wis

Stan, what cam was this, That H-O measured?? Is that the GM 041?

It was the Crane version of the 041 - Crane 969681

Stan