[HWYSTR455]

Dang, I forgot to check that.

.

[tom s]

So I dont have to go back and read the whole deal again,what lobe lift and what rockers and what rocker ratio?To me the cam and lifter look fine.Saw something on the dyno I have a question about.Tom

[tom s]

OK,another straw,as I remember when those valve cover came out they did not like a lot of lift!With over 600 at the valve i would really make sure there is no witness marks from the rockers.I run the thick 5/16 butler gaskets and get away with 660 lift on factory covers but as I said when those came out the was issues with a lot of lift.Still grasping.Tom

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by tom s

OK,another straw,as I remember when those valve cover came out they did not like a lot of lift!

True. Those covers are cast really thick and the inside has a rounded roof with lots of material at the top. Believe the set we measured had a little less than 1-3/4" clearance inside. Ended up with 2 thick gaskets with them on a Kaufman head.

[Va68goat]

Formulajones,
You're at distraction at best. Just because I don't consider your opinion of value does not mean the knocking will not be located. I'll address this one more time but I would like to get back to topic. As for whats been going outside of the forum, it would be very easy to screenshot everything since the motor failed on the dyno and cut and paste emails. Arizona and Virginia are both one party consent states as well. As soon as the build went bad, I immediatley realized I had to document everything. I actually saved everything since day one but thats just me.

Comprehend this Formulajones...why would I do or say anything that would anger Paul when I needed his involvement while we were diagnosing the problem? Why would I do or say anything that would anger Paul while he had possession of my motor? I questioned him like every disappointed customer would. I never said one negative thing about Paul until I paid the $2,575 ransom and I had the motor in my possession. Now that the motor is still knocking and he ran away, anyone would be mad. I don't want to take any action outside of talking to him and having him help me get through it. I'm prepared to take this to another level right now if need be but I don't want to do that because I feel this is best handled man to man. Paul has made a choice to wash his hands. So eventually, there is not going to be another option for me. As I said before, Jeff has been texting me and said he has a guy that can come look at the motor. I appreciate that and I hope that happens soon. I just want this motor right. As I told the guys that have worked on my car. I don't want guys that are "on my side", it's best to have guys that don't even care about that and they just want to see this motor run.

Remember Formulajones....you have my number. Feel free to call me but you're not moderating this situation.

[DOC]

Now is the time to spin it over with just the starter and use a mechanics stethoscope to pinpoint noise. Just be careful to not drop anything down there. Also, As it is turning over, feel each push rod, do you feel the noise? Touch areas between the push rods on the block and see if you feel the noise.

Look for any witness marks, however slight from the bars on the roller lifters especially the most rear ones and make sure they are not touching the block as it goes through the whole crank rotation. Hard to tell in the pic, But does #7 exhaust lifter bar look close to the block?


Otherwise, I do not see anything standing out. Looks good in there.

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by DOC

Now is the time to spin it over with just the starter and use a mechanics stethoscope to pinpoint noise. Just be careful to not drop anything down there. Also, As it is turning over, feel each push rod, do you feel the noise? Touch areas between the push rods on the block and see if you feel the noise.

Look for any witness marks, however slight from the bars on the roller lifters especially the most rear ones and make sure they are not touching the block as it goes through the whole crank rotation. Hard to tell in the pic, But does #7 exhaust lifter bar look close to the block?


Otherwise, I do not see anything standing out. Looks good in there.

I do see that tie bar is close. They are thinking the noise is near the distributor. It would take 20 minutes to have that intake off and valley pan. Then crank it over and feel those pushrods and look that tie bar over.

[DOC]

Do you have the intake and valley cover off right now?

[tom s]

I just noticed those valve covers on the dyno picture.Nothing to really see on a engine run stand or a dyno once the engine is ready to run that I can remember.Tom

[Va68goat]

dataway,
Here are the witness marks that were located on the oil pump shaft.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

dataway,
Here are the witness marks that were located on the oil pump shaft.

Serious question to all those thinking about this.
Why would the "witness marks" only be on one side of the oil pump shaft?

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by STEELCITYFIREBIRD

Serious question to all those thinking about this.
Why would the "witness marks" only be on one side of the oil pump shaft?

Think it was a low spot on the shaft.

.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

I'd find the skip in the vacuum gauge firstly.If you locate and isolate or repair that issue it may or may not be related or causual to the "knock" sound.

Lots of good recommendations and observations I agree with, following my line of thought on diagnosing these issues.

-Agree Compression test should definitely be done on a hot engine.
-If a HOT cranking compression produces #'s that low, I can't imagine it running well or producing the #'s it did on the dyno. a cylinder leakdown test is indeed warranted.(also cam timing can't be off that far and make those dyno #'s), with that I think the compression test data is useless till verified and done under the correct conditions.(make sure the hose seals well if multi part and to s-plug hole..oil the o ring)


Which cylinders/crank pin/s had the problem?[
And full detail of damage. Damaged bearings or broken rods etc. Are the pistons floated or pressed pin pistons in this motor?

If I am following this correctly, the oil pump and shaft swap out was with the wiped dizzy bushing in place. So that testing is irrelevant.


IDK, the drip drip of facts, instead of full disclosure up front of what happened on the original dyno pulls has sent this diagnosis on many unnecessary tangents.
This doesn't make sense to me.. Oil pressure loss, dizzy bushing wiped, oil pump drive shaft contacted block passage unsymmetrical. IDK, seems there is more to the original failure... yet to be disclosed, just the status quo from the beginning

.

[MarkS57]

Originally Posted by STEELCITYFIREBIRD

Serious question to all those thinking about this.
Why would the "witness marks" only be on one side of the oil pump shaft?

That was my point in his other thread a week or so ago. And the idea that the cam gear might not be right. The recent vid of the cam gear rotating seems to show it is concentric but I guess the cam gear teeth might not be machined correctly....long shot...but I've never seen an oil pump shaft with such a clear off- center wear pattern either..others may have?

[Pronto Poncho]

Originally Posted by MarkS57

That was my point in his other thread a week or so ago. And the idea that the cam gear might not be right. The recent vid of the cam gear rotating seems to show it is concentric but I guess the cam gear teeth might not be machined correctly....long shot...but I've never seen an oil pump shaft with such a clear off- center wear pattern either..others may have?

Here is some more info on that.

An altered 1/2 distributer base and shaft was installed. It was the base with just the shaft sticking up. The original timing gear was put on the test shaft. The motor was turned over without plugs. The shaft was just held in by gravity. This procedure was done with a small amount of lateral pressure put in the side of the exposed shaft and then agin with no pressure. There was absolutely no pulsing or any other type of irregular movement on the exposed shaft. It spun straight and true.

So still open to suggestions because we are out of ideas on this one.

[Pronto Poncho]

Originally Posted by STEELCITYFIREBIRD

Serious question to all those thinking about this.
Why would the "witness marks" only be on one side of the oil pump shaft?

Great Question !

We talked about that in length and could not come up with a really good answer.

A little background on what we did. We did the following: Installed another oil pump, oil shaft and distributer. The results were the same, still tapping ! We also checked the oil drive shaft for damage or out or centric. Other than the witness marks all checked out ok. I am willing to believe the initial marks were made because of the bad bushing in the distributer. But why only on part of the shaft ?

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by Pronto Poncho

Great Question !

We talked about that in length and could not come up with a really good answer.

A little background on what we did. We did the following: Installed another oil pump, oil shaft and distributer. The results were the same, still tapping ! We also checked the oil drive shaft for damage or out or centric. Other than the witness marks all checked out ok. I am willing to believe the initial marks were made because of the bad bushing in the distributer. But why only on part of the shaft ?

Was the slot dead center of the shaft?

This one pic "looks like" it had some ear spread on the right side. If so, that would have pushed the opposite side, where the ware is, closer to the guide hole.



Clay

[64speed]

I can see an improperly plumbed PCV causing a skip but not a pronounced knock.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by 64speed

I can see an improperly plumbed PCV causing a skip but not a pronounced knock.

It's not the plumbing; it's the PCV valve itself. If you get a bad one they will sometimes flutter with engine vacuum. The fluttering causes a clicking sound. It's a long shot but worth a look.

[Pronto Poncho]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

It's not the plumbing; it's the PCV valve itself. If you get a bad one they will sometimes flutter with engine vacuum. The fluttering causes a clicking sound. It's a long shot but worth a look.

Nope not It, Thanks.