["QUICK-SILVER"]

Appears to have one cylinder not hitting with the same amount of punch as the others.

The idle mixture screw over #1 and #3 will be a balancing act at best with the PCV hooked like it is. Make #1 hit strong and #3 will be rich. Make #3 hit strong and #1 will be lean.

Look back at one of the old videos with the 870 carburetor. The engine ran a little smoother.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeOqYtY0Dng

Clay

[Va68goat]

Sun Tuned,
Hahaha. No diesel. (93 Octane pump gas). This picture was taken when the motor had around 150 miles drive time and a bunch of idle time while we were diagnosing the knocking noise.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Those cylinder head pics are from pretty early in your diagnosis, not presently, correct?

The timeline of this is VERY long and confusing to follow without researching this book!

Who pulled/installed the heads?
What was checked and by whom?

I highly agree, looks like it's on a high petro diet.Valve seats are likely just as laden with deposits at that time.

_Currently
Where was the intake vacuum leak, at which cylinder, pairs, and /or multiple locations?

The discovery and introduction of new base engine problems in the build/rebuild heavily taint this deal, beginning with the original, previously undisclosed, original dyno failure when trying to diagnose the noise.

Bottom line, the engine lost oil pressure on the dyno at birth... from an assembly failure. It just seems to be patch jobs from that point.
I'm deeply disappointed in this deal.
I've been on Paul/Jeff's end.It not a easy pill to swallow,
Menn take responsibility for their mistakes, and good business men make things right.

With that I'm impressed with Jeff's current appropriate actions.
The rest of this deal is a train wreck.
With that, I think I'll just watch from the sidelines from here out.

[Va68goat]

We've pulled one plug at a time several times throughout the last two years. The knocking noise never changed and was always present.

The motor was on the dyno 4 times and the knocking noise wasn't heard because there were no mufflers on it. I dont have access to an engine stand. We've done about 165 hours of diagnosis on this motor but we've never totally disassembled it.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Scott Stoneburg]

Ok..this has probably been answered..but is the cam a roller/hydraulic roller? If so what valley pan is on the motor. Like I said, Probaby answered already. But I cant read the whole thread to check

[grivera]

Originally Posted by Scott Stoneburg

Ok..this has probably been answered..but is the cam a roller/hydraulic roller? If so what valley pan is on the motor. Like I said, Probaby answered already. But I cant read the whole thread to check

Hydraulic Roller cam/lifters, Tomahawk valley pan

[Scott Stoneburg]

Originally Posted by grivera

Hydraulic Roller cam/lifters, Tomahawk valley pan

Cool. When was the last time the oil filter was checked for metal? If recent and there is no bearing material in the filter my guess is the lifters ( 1 or more ) making contact with the valley pan. I know it was probably checked when the motor was assembled, but I just read that the valley pan was pulled to fix an oil leak. Was a gasket used or just sealant? If no gasket then that would nake the pan a little closer to the lifters.

[Va68goat]

455GRIN,
I appreciate that. I'm hopeful that the right thing will be done to get this motor right. I have no doubt this motor will need to be torn down. Jeff's guy is pretty damn good and hopefully it will get resolved. As I said before, I guarantee Jeff and Paul want this nightmare to end just as much as I do but I don't think any customer would accept the motor as is.

[Va68goat]

455GRIN,
I'm a pretty patient guy and I know I'm new to messing around with these old cars but I think with over 165 hours of instructed diagnosis of this motor given by the builder, I think it's time to stop looking for a mistake that we "could" have done hooking up the motor and start worrying about whats going on inside the motor. We've spent a lot of time, energy and money doing test after test looking for a faulty part or a install mistake and not enough energy is being spent looking for a mistake on the build. Considering this motor had a catastrophic failure on the dyno, I'm willing to bet that is the root of this problem.

I thought about looking for another motor to throw in there but thats just more money and not what I paid for. One way or another...This motor will get right. It's just a shame that we're spinning our wheels looking for a mistake on our end when 165 hours has proven it's not on this end!

[GTO JONES]

Long shot throwing it out there, have you tried spraying a liquid like WD-40 or starting fluid something like that around the intake gasket while it is running, if there is a vacuum leak the idle will change /

[64speed]

I can’t believe how expensive oil filter cutters are. I mean I bought one for my engine obviously but Jesus it’s just a large tubing cutting. The cheapest one I found was from speedway motors with free shipping on amazon. Still 51 dollars. That’s ridiculous

[TedRamAirII]

Originally Posted by 64speed

I can’t believe how expensive oil filter cutters are. I mean I bought one for my engine obviously but Jesus it’s just a large tubing cutting. The cheapest one I found was from speedway motors with free shipping on amazon. Still 51 dollars. That’s ridiculous

$43 at Summit, I though you were a Summit Man? LOL. I bought one at a swap meet, $10.. Its a must have tool!

[64speed]

Originally Posted by TedRamAirII

$43 at Summit, I though you were a Summit Man? LOL. I bought one at a swap meet, $10.. Its a must have tool!

But you gotta pay shipping. Shipping is free from JEGS if you buy thru amazon

[Va68goat]

Well, not too much to update. Last week the tech finished diagnosing the engine and it was determined to be internal / mechanical. I've been texting with Jeff and I'm just waiting to see what the next step is. I don't think it's a good idea to send the engine back to Arizona so Jeff said he may fly Paul out here. I would hate for Paul to lose time away from the shop to fly out here because time is money. There is a local shop (C&C auto performance) that I'm confident that could do this job for the same amount of money or less as it would be for Paul to fly out here, replace gaskets, oil, parts if needed, time away from the shop etc. The tech that diagnosed my engine has known the guys from C&C for decades. Jeff said he's going to be speaking to C&C (the same shop that inspected the heads). Hope this happens soon!

[Va68goat]

TedRamAirII,
Yeah..the engine is going to be pulled real soon. It's not going back to Arizona though. We are working something out to keep the motor here in Virginia. I'm trying to work out a plan with Jeff and we're still working out the details. I hope it's something simple but after close to 180 hours of diagnosis time and two years without driving this car, who knows what it could be.

[Paul E]

Take an oil sample and send it in. The results will tell you more about if something is rubbing than most other things. cost is likely under $30. Make sure to take mid stream

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Paul E

Take an oil sample and send it in. The results will tell you more about if something is rubbing than most other things. cost is likely under $30. Make sure to take mid stream

This is probably a pretty good idea to find out if there is metal circulating in the oil and what type of metal it is. If nothing else it will give anyone tearing into the engine an indicator of where to look.

From Blackstone Labs how oil analysis can show a problem before it becomes a larger problem:

Are you changing your oil often enough? Too often? Is synthetic oil really worth it? When it comes to the engine, it can be hard to know what’s going on without tearing it down…until now.
Oil analysis can identify any problems developing long before they cause you an expensive headache, and provide lots of other information too. Can you run the oil longer than the manual says? Will one brand of oil perform better than another? Is there any contamination in the oil? Are your oil and air filters doing a good job? An oil analysis can answer these questions and more. Let hard data tell you what you need to know about what’s going in inside your engine. Request your free test kit today!

Under their spectroscope even metal particles smaller than can be seen with the naked eye show up and are identified to what type of metal is wearing and how much metal is in the oil compared to normal traces from wear within normal circumstances.

Link to Blackstone Labs in Fort Wayne Indiana:

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/

For roughly $30 it can be a very good diagnostic tool in this case.

[455GRIN]

Another lost driving season, you need to found a cheap replacement motor off craigslist so you can start enjoying that beautiful GTO.
A 3rd party needs to open it and get it figured out. The engine builder had 2 chances, and it cost you time and more money.

Does anybody have a spare motor that could get our Pontiac buddy rolling again?

[455GRIN]

VA68goat, I agree that's not what you paid, you desire a strong running motor. But that motor has a bad knock, needs to come out, put on a test stand, if noise is still there, motor has to come apart. Not sure who or how at this point, hope Jeff's guy gets figured out.
Lifes too short, someone has a motor to get you going for the short term. It appears that motor will be down for awhile.
Good luck we are hoping for the best

[scott70]

Originally Posted by 455GRIN

VA68goat, I agree that's not what you paid, you desire a strong running motor. But that motor has a bad knock, needs to come out, put on a test stand, if noise is still there, motor has to come apart. Not sure who or how at this point, hope Jeff's guy gets figured out.
Lifes too short, someone has a motor to get you going for the short term. It appears that motor will be down for awhile.
Good luck we are hoping for the best

+1. This is the reality of the situation unfortunately. Sounds like you've done alot and checked all the easy, stupid things that could be making the noise. Good to check those things first. The motor has been apart and back together but obviously the problem is being overlooked each time. I get what you're saying about all the time and money that has been spent but the reality is it's going to be internal and that means the motor is coming out. You have more patience than me because I'd want to be driving that goat and comes a time when I wash my hands of someone I'm relying on and move on to someone else. I hope the guy can figure it out but that motor is coming back out and there's no time like the present. I'm a realist,,, not much of a optimist. It's been too long.