[PONTIAC DUDE]

Steve, Just got my Crower .200 offset lifters after a 6 week wait.
Same lifters you tried in your IA 2 block. Fits my IA 1 block with over .100 clearnace between the bar and pad.

Will take pics, take measurements and send them to see if they made any changes in the top location of the bar in reference to the lifter itself.

In reference to roller lifters.
I remember that the first blocks Dick sold had the pad too high and the second batch had them machined lowered. Mine is factory lowered, as were the other 2 IA 1 engines I built. Never was an issue.
Maybe the specs were never changed on the original plans when the changes were made ?
I don't know.
Getting into the larger diameter lifter with a wider roller. Gonna be some work so be prepared, with the valley wall moved closer to the lifter bores to accomadate the thicker cylinder walls for proper water flow on the top side. Grooves are cut now and some have to be even ground deeper then what the factory cut just to fit a stock diameter lifter. Look at Steve's pics on the lifter back wall. But Can be done.
Not talking trash and don't want it to be conceived that way, just putting info out there. Just FYI.

[John Langer]

My lobe lift is larger then most people on this boards gross lift of the cam after rocker ratio. I have an IA1 and never had to machine the lifter pad.

[Scott Rex]

I have been trying to figure our how to use a bigger lifter with a bigger roller, but here is the problem:
The Comp and Crower .842 lifters have a .750 roller. Going to the bigger .874 lifter, it has a bigger body, but it also has a .750 roller.

Seems the only way to get an .800 roller is to go with a .904 lifter and I don't think there is enough room to run that big of a lifter. Has anyone been sucessful using a .904 lifter?

Anyone have any specs on other brands of lifters? Maybe another brand has a .800 roller with a .874 body????

[Rob]

Scott will likely be the first to try the .904 lifter bushing, I think they will work, but the lifter bores closest to the center cam bearing are going to be really close. probably .050" clearance with a .904.

-Rob

[Mo]

Rob , I just was on Paul Spotts website. He has alot of good pictures of the early AI2 block. You can see there isn't enough room to move some of the lifter bores due to the cam bearing location (for example, near #4 cyl?). Oh well.
However, I'm sure if you had enough money to throw at it, those guys at LSMeng could remove enough material to make it work. That fully machined/lightened Dart block looked real nice.

Did you notice it didn't have any bracing across the lifter valley? Hmmmmm.

[Rob]

Mo,

I took a camshaft and did some quick measring a .903 diameter .800 wheel lifter would be tight, but does look like it would fit.

A down side to Schubeck lifters -they use smaller wheel for same diameter lifter that rollers use.

-Rob

[Ray Cox]

Just so my point is clear who cares if we have to machine it. its nice that there is material there for people like rex to work with to try moving stuff around and put bigger cams or lifters in it can easly be taken away but cannot be added

[Skip Fix]

You can buy E heads with no pushrod holes yet to make your own for Wide ports or ones for standard Pontiac location, maybe an AP block with more meat for drill your own location or height and a block ready to drop in regular Pontiac lifters.Seems like with final machining and lifter bore drilling at AP it would be easier to mill them down at that time than having to set a block up in a fixture under a Bridgeport at an individual shop.Look at how few shops in the country have a fixture for bushing Pontiac lifter bores.

I would bet the ready to drop in would have as much or more market from a business stand point.So both ends of consumers are covered then, or have that machining as an add on extra option when purchased for a certain fee AP gets a few more dollars for their work in their pocket, consumer has a block that any regular shop can finish out easily. Everybody's happy!More dollars for their product, easier assembly more component interchangability, what a deal!I'm always looking for new services to add to get more dollars per purchase in my business and have a happy customer for paying it.

[Ken -Ace- Brewer]

I will be checking into this. As we are about ready to start building a 542 ci IA 2 block for a magazine article. I will test fit the cam shortly and see if there is a problem with the lifter touching the lifter pad area. You people now have me a lil concerned.
Be Cool,

[Rob]

Right now I think the easiest thing is buying Isky tall lifters and Pontiac bars.

Another thing that looks good about the meat on the IAII blocks is Jesel Dogbone lifters.

-Rob

[PONTIAC DUDE]

But what do ya do if ya need .200 offset? Still will have to grind. I think grinding is the only option as Isky and all the other manufactures only go to .180
Crower, I think, is the only manufacture that offers a .200 offset.

[bmpmdf]

I have to agree with Ray here. You can't add material. And if we are truely going to have highend competative power, we have to have the material in the block. For one thing, it isn't a big deal to machine the lifter bore tops. As for should AP do it on all blocks, maybe they should make it an option. If I get to buy one and could go for max power, I would want the extra material. There are things you can do with the extra material there. Ask a PRO Stock engine builder what having the optional material means. Many of them actuly start with raw cores with no holes at all for the lifters. They don't always want the lifter bores in the same location.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Not agruing the point over meat. Just what options in lifter offset and bar height that is available.

[Mo]

Dude, looks like there are alot of choices for lifters. I don't think you can ,reasonably, expect this block to accept a set of factory d ports and a set of Tiger heads without some sort of machine work to accomodate for special offset lifters.
This is really the first full season for this block and alot of guys are spending big $$$ to make their set-up the best. I doubt too many of them are going to reveal all their secrets so you can beat them at the track on race day. Do you? I'm happy we have the option to do anything. Remember when we didn't!

As the dust settles, and Allpontiac gets the Tigerhead up and going, I'm sure there will be a standard list of parts from vendors that work without mods.(my assumption) They have allready posted who is on board for pistons and rockershafts.
I'm in the position to watch and see how things develope since Spotty won't be building mine til about this time next year. I applaud all you guys sticking your wallets out to work out the "bugs" on these motors. Thanks.

[Rob]

going back to page four of this thread I listed Isky part numbers with and without offsets. I will try and get individual numbers but that's what I would use first. Crower, Comp, and Crane all have permantantly attached tie bars. Chev .842 kit and Pontiac bars, that's the easiest way to deal with the lifter bore embossment.

Milling the lifter bore embossements down will really hurt the ablilty to use Dogbone style lifters, I for one would rather ditch that tiebar anyway. .903 or .937 is the way to go.


-Rob

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Bwhahahahahaha, I don't need their secrets. LOL. Why would I?
I've been doing Race performance building for over 30 years. Never said anything about issues with offsets. Re-read my post. I just stated that the only current manufacture of a .200 offset is Crower and the block will have to be cut if you need this much offset and use this roller lifter. This ain't my first rodeo. I've built 572's IA 1 with Super Chief heads, a slew of other IA 1 combo's plus 3 IA 2 blocks in the shop now waiting on other parts. So Trust me, I know the issues here and there. Built quite a few hp engines along the way, all brands.
Just because I don't get involved with the issues and talk about all my past achomplishments on this site doesn't mean I don't know what needs to be done or have the ability to get'er it done.

As for me and this year. Welllllllll. You'll just have to wait and see.

[Mo]

The Dude not talk about past achomplishments. Bwhahahahahahahahahah!
Well aware of what the Dude has done. Sorry to say but I was really refering to what the N/A guys are doing and their need to keep some thing under wraps. I can respect that.
I know the Dudes "been there done that" stuff too. Not taking any shots at anyone......yet. Although that fastest pontiac street car thing with stock suspension, well...better not show all your card this year ., LOL

[Robert C.]

Bill Ceralli Stocks the lifter that we use in our IA II motors. They are a high end lifter. They are a CFM-Pro Parts, .842 Lifter With a .150 Off Set that allows a 1.700 shorter push rod. The link bar is .300 higher to clear the block. He will be glad to sell anyone a set. 1-973-742-4972 Yes we have more iron on top of the lifter bosses but this is the same iron that the IA I have. This post is great to inform people on what is needed on a IA II motor. The block will take a stock pontiac or Chevy lifter with no mods.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Cards on the table.

Me. LOL.

Still tryin to get it together for this year. Seems like a constant 2 forward and 4 back.
But still hustlin.