[cv340]

And did my cowl tag tell you anything special? thank you.

[johnta1]

I think it shows that it may be hard to tell which came 1st.





I'll see if this works:

These are the differences between your VIN B151497 and the B151829 car:

VIN: B151497 - B151829 = 332 before B151829

Bdy# 559341 - 557813 = 1528 back from B151829

Seq# 101568 - 102579 = 1011 before B151829

Order 16412 - 16410 = 2 back from B151829

Ident 432438 - 432440 = 2 before B151829



B151497 ________ B151729 _______ B151829

Bdy# - 559341 _ Bdy# - 559347 _ Bdy# - 557813
Date - 01B ______ Date - 01B ________ Date - 01B
Seq# - 101568 __ Seq# - 102021 __ Seq# - 102579

Order # - 16412 __ Order # - ? __ Order # - 16410
Date - 01/23/69 ____ Date - 01/27/69 _____ Date - 01/23/69
IDENT # - 432438 ____ IDENT # - ? ____ IDENT # - 432440


===============================


B151729 is a Judge but only have the cowl tag.
(have windowsticker pic but it's aftermarket so doesn't have any relative info)

The Bdy#, Date and Seq# are on cowl Tag
The Order#, Date and IDENT # (without the PBL) are on the invoice.

Someone may be able to explain what each means.
The Seq# is not really know for sure, but 1st digits is a day count and the last 4 digits of the Seq# is the sequence/placement on the line possibly.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The ID number is the Invoice number .
It is the ID for the Invoice
Cars were - as best as we know - invoiced in order of completion.

Even though the other example has a lower order number , your car was completed first.
Narrow margin , but still a margin.

We can't really say for sure they were customer orders.
I'm going to speculate they were planned orchestrated orders for dealer promos.
Another reason for the earlier release to get them to their dealers in time to conjunction with the US Main Release in the first part of February.

They are too similar to each other to be coincidental customer orders.
Too similar to Pattern to be coincidental also.
Order numbers too close also.
My opinion ,,,,,

There were likely more done in that group too.
I would exercise caution before making too great of a claim as being the full first one for export.
But it's in that group - at minimum.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Just a side note about Invoice numbers -
Cars that were used by PMD or PMD Zone Use don't get a full fledged Invoice Number until they are billed out to a selling dealer.

So their invoice number won't reflect it's order of completion, on those examples.
aka the Pattern Car that John posted with an October 69 dated Invoice in the 800,000 range.

It also throws a little bit of a monkey wrench into the Pattern Car completion factor on the whole.
It's a weighted measure to use incrementally in certain scenarios. aka due diligence

[cv340]

OK, appreciate the info very very much thank you. I’ll keep an eye on this post..

[cv340]

Was there someone that you had in mind that we could push all that nice sequence and related data on this car? I keep clicking on it but I haven’t seen a response. I was thinking what about the guy named North? Thank you too much fellas.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Nope .
All you are basically hoping for at this time is more early Canadian export 69 Judge examples to compare with the car .
North may have one or two other specimens he could share.
You could send him a private message.

There is nothing left to prove - that can ever be proven by us mortals.

You can contact Vintage Vehicle Services / GM of Canada - and have them sort through all their invoices in January 1969 looking for all 1969 Judges sent to Canada that month.
No idea if they would entertain that - or what it would cost.
They don't do anything for free.

Could also try the same approach with PHS , but even more doubtful they would entertain the idea.
They don't do anything for free either .

[cv340]

Oh no, that’s fine. I thank you much. I just thought when you put the one post with all the data out there you had mentioned ill try this… I just kind of thought that maybe you were wondering if somebody else would pick up on where you weren’t quite sure. No I’m good. It’s an early car .One last question. How many US cars are in that 01B group that you know of. I thank you much: i’ll have a look for a sheet in that car because the interior seems to be original. I can only assume the carpet was changed. I’ll get back to you here if I find one, but it doesn’t sound like there’s many or if any build sheets in Baltimore cars.. PHS and vintage vehicle registry had nothing earlier. I was truly surprised and how much information and how much you knew about production dates and data… like who are you ..? you were so nice to me here. I feel like we should be friends. But I gotta tell you I’m a Canadian Trump supporter lol and you’re not old enough to have worked on the production lines. I’m sure.

[johnta1]

Pontiac Oakland Museum has a pic of 849 Judges made in January.
No idea of which weeks, other than production started mid Jan.


They were probably ramping up, with March the most made.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

North has the largest personal data base of 69 Judges than any of us here .
And all 69 Pontiacs on the whole . He is a 1969 Pontiac aficionado .
But it's only a portion of actual production.

There is a chance he may have 1 or 2 other early Canadian export 69 Judges in his data base.
Besides the 2 shown so far by you and John .

We don't get notifications of new posts in threads we are involved with , like we use to.
We also don't even get notifications of new private messages by email, like we use to.
So his further involvement will be an unknown matter of time.
Just eventually .

[CDN2PLS2]

All this had me curious,so I dug through my sheets today.Earliest Canadian Judge I have is B154388

[Held for Ransom]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

We don't get notifications of new posts in threads we are involved with , like we use to.
We also don't even get notifications of new private messages by email, like we use to.
So his further involvement will be an unknown matter of time.
Just eventually .

I just got daily notifications on 2 threads in the SPAM folder of my personal E-mail.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

I just got daily notifications on 2 threads in the SPAM folder of my personal E-mail.

Maybe North will see this .

I started getting notifications this morning , to my regular email .
Things are looking up !

[Held for Ransom]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Maybe North will see this .

I started getting notifications this morning , to my regular email .
Things are looking up !

I haven't got anything since, though.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Same here , nothing since March 3rd

[north]

Hi all, just back from winter hiatus. I'm looking at the earliest Baltimore cars in my invoice collection:

The two above mentioned Canadian Judges (both shipped january 23rd) are the earliest shipped Judges of any plant. it would be interesting to see the GM canada information (we only have the PHS supplied invoice) on the 151829 car as this would show where the car was shipped to. I say this because the 151497 car was shipped not to a dealer but to GM of Canada (Vancouver location). I suspect the other one was also sent to GM of canada rather than a dealer. Both were probably promotional cars for car shows or magazine review etc. Interesting that the two earliest shipped Judges were both not pattern cars.

[north]

On a hunch I just looked at all the early Judges shipped to Canada I have (8 shipped to Canada within the time frame of pattern cars), and none of them are pattern. I guess that the pattern car program was for US dealers only.

I have no overseas shipped Judges from the pattern period.

[OneJudge]

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