[chiefbigb]

Yes Paul there are a few inaccurate things listed above. Rip Mike we will try to keep things strait down here.

[alloy indian]

So are these heads standard push rod location? Do they require offset lifters? I don't see this listed anywhere.

[Tom Vaught]

Good Post Dragncar.
Mike just wanted to run in the 7s with his steel firebird. HE DID THAT.
He wanted to get a first class dyno session on his engine, He got that locally.
No long trips and was helped by a very sharp dyno guy. Chris H.

Some have never run 7s in the quarter, (Never was on my bucket list).
Mike wanted to do that and he did it with a lot of hard work and $$$, and help from his friends. On a track, racing with his friends in the last months of his life.

Back to the Super Wedge Head. Looking forward to it easily topping the High Port Numbers and setting a new standard for that type of head design. Carry On.

Tom V.

[Dragncar]

I dont know Tom. KRE says with porting they think the Super Wedge can go 475cfm. Mike just got 459 out of High Ports without relocating the valve. I do not think its unreasonable to think he could not get 15 or so more cfm out of them if he really tried. Moved valve location. Mike did throw the 480 number out to me, kind of chuckling at the end of a conversation. I think Mike liked putting friendly pressure on John for more. And John enjoyed the challenge.
Who is going to pick up the ball from Mike ? He was a head guy/guru/engine builders dream. Wanted more, driven and willing to make it happen. No shortage of them wanting Mike in their camp. Almost went Tigers not too far back.
Still say cfm is not cfm. We all know about the 480cfm Pro Ports that did not run like that on the track. Went different direction. Certain KRE guy got the latest and greatest HPs and no improvement. Got blamed, went different direction.
I think shops are nuts for not doing them right. People like that do not grow on trees.
Cant wait for someone to have Marcella do a set of Super Wedges.

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Still say cfm is not cfm. We all know about the 480cfm Pro Ports that did not run like that on the track. Went different direction. Certain KRE guy got the latest and greatest HPs and no improvement. Got blamed, went different direction..

Agree.
CSA and velocity first.

Chad Speier can also do it well.

[slowbird]

I'd like to see someone other than BES build a Pontiac for NMCA 10.5 and see if they can compete. Maybe KRE can find a customer to build and an engine with these Super Wedge heads and compete.

[PAUL K]

Let's do it with Slowbird.....I'll tune the suspension.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Let's do it with Slowbird.....I'll tune the suspension.

Sounds good, you sponsoring me?

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by slowbird

Sounds good, you sponsoring me?

Partially.... and Mr. Ferris will feed us.

[Jack Ferris]

I'll bring sandwiches.

[ponjohn]

How much power loss from 16-1 down to 11-1?

[Tom Vaught]

Power loss is assumed to be 3% gain or loss in compression ratio per point of compression ratio. But the gain diminishes as you actually get over about 13 to 1 compression ratio.

But for easy math, 5 compression ratio points times 3% for each point = 15% less power vs a 16-1 engine.

Tom V.

[PontiacMatt72]

930 x .85 = 790.5 hp

So safe to assume the ~5 points of of compression decrease from 16:1 down to 11:1 would lose ya roughly 130-140 hp (Edit) **in this particular instance.

[johnta1]

Hp Change from CR change Calc

[PontiacMatt72]

Originally Posted by PontiacMatt72

930 x .85 = 790.5 hp

So safe to assume the ~5 points of of compression decrease from 16:1 down to 11:1 would lose ya roughly 130-140 hp (Edit) **in this particular instance.

2nd edit:
Apparently (like many other things) it's a matter of opinion. Therefore, Do your own math with whatever formula you think is right.

[johnta1]

It's best to do your own due diligence.

Google it, research it if you don't understand it.

[johnta1]

One example:

From HO Racing book a graph showing the CR change percentage:
(nothing to do with me so don't shoot the messenger again)

CR Change

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by johnta1

One example:

From HO Racing book a graph showing the CR change percentage:
(nothing to do with me so don't shoot the messenger again)

CR Change

LOL! How can we assume stuff when the graph only goes to 13 to 1?
Not very easy is it John. Same deal for percentage changes with 16 to 1 engines and 930 hp engines.
Bet Craig would have killed for a 930 HP engine when he and Kern wrote the book. So then you have to
go with real data like single cylinder engine testing where a full sweep of the engine's compression ratios
is done and the power levels documented.

It was a basic Generic question and we gave generic answers, so how about we call this one a TIE?
So what data did you base your calculator program on? Smith, Vizard, Speed Talk?

Tom V.

[Tom Vaught]

Wallace says about 80 hp vs the simple 3% rule that came from HO Racing years ago.

Using his calculator for whatever it is worth:

Assuming 930 HP at 16 to 1 and then stepping down 1 compression ratio at a time to the lower compression ratio of 11 to 1.

12 hp, 14 hp, 14 hp, 17 hp, 19 hp change.

Wallace's number say a 2.0% change from 11 to 1 to 12 to 1 so he is in disagreement with the old numbers assumed by the AUTO industry. So take the calculator numbers with a grain of salt. Wallace says that you only gain 19 hp with a 930 hp engine going from 11 to 1 to 12 to 1 and only 12 horsepower from 15 to 1 to 16 to 1.
Almost not worth doing it from his calculator.

You get a lot more change from Boost obviously.

Tom V.



Tom V.

[johnta1]

Tom's way is not correct.



The HP difference does not follow a straight line.