[shoebox1.1]

I sure hope this noise gets found soon and the owner can report some fun outings with the car! I’m invested in the story lol. Hours reading all this!! Good luck brother

[Va68goat]

For the record, I didn't even know what a harmonic balancer was before I had this motor built. That balancer wasn't on the previous motor so it wasn't sent with the heads. It was ordered from Butlers.

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[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

For the record, I didn't even know what a harmonic balancer was before I had this motor built. That balancer wasn't on the previous motor so it wasn't sent with the heads. It was ordered from Butlers.

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Who paid for it and provided the shipping address?

[Mike Davis]

Nothing wrong with the Romac balancers. I have had one on a few different engines turning 7200RPM time and time again.
And the Romac's are SFI approved.

[Va68goat]

jonmachota78,
You have really good points. When we replaced the lifters last time, I sent the original lifters to Paul. He inspected them and said they were fine. Some guys have mentioned lifters before but when they hear the engine in person and use a mechanics stethoscope, we get a signature from the distributor area. When you look at everything as a whole...bad distributor bushing, the damage to the original distributor gear, the witness marks on the oil pump shaft and now that the 2nd distributor gear with only 2 hours of run time already has uneven wear, it really points to something else...I think. Thats interesting about the lifter bore though. Hopefully that will get looked at soon. Me and my friends are pretty much done diagnosing this motor so whomever looks at it, whether it's Paul or the local shop, they may want to look at that.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

jonmachota78,
and now that the 2nd distributor gear with only 2 hours of run time already has uneven wear.

I must of missed this...somehow.....pics ?? ....of both??

[Va68goat]

I paid Butlers and had it shipped to Paul. I certainly didn't pick it out because as I said before, I didnt even know what a harmonic balancer was!

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[gtofreek]

Your right Joe, I was thinking about another customer that sent a balancer with his engine. Point is, I did not suggest a Romac balancer. I never would have even thought about suggesting a Romac because we just don't use Romac anything. Not there there is anything wrong with them. As far as I know they have good quality parts, we just use other stuff. Someone else must have suggested it to you and I do seem to remember a call from you asking about it, and if I agreed it was strictly off of their reputation, not because I use them. The only Romac parts I have ever installed were customer furnished, and it's only been a handful. I did not realize it would be several inch's smaller than stock and wouldn't fit. Had to grind a bunch to get it to fit. But that was with the other crank, This crank may have had a slightly different dimension or the timing cover not being dowel pinned may be in a slightly different position than it was originally. At low idle however, the engine when loping will move the crank back and forth, then when revved up, the crank stabilizes and the crank quits walking front to back, so I could see it making this noise. As I said before, i checked everything very carefully inside that engine and I am confident the noise is external, and not internal. So lets see what happens when he fixes the balancer spacing.

[HWYSTR455]

I had a Romac once. Once. I had to hone the inside in order to get it to install on the crank snout, and when I called Butler about it, they said that's common with those. Ok, I said, and threw the thing on the bench and ordered a different one.

Think the last one I bought was a Pioneer, but have used Powerbond and PRWs before with no issues.

EDIT: I only use SFI balancers. Can't recall which one it was, but I had an issue with one brand that didn't seat all the way with an OE A/C pulley.

.

[Formulas]

What you might do for a test is change out the balancer all together beg borrow or steal a good old sticker throw it on for a test and remember to torque properly

Or warm up engine take off balancer start engine for a very short time just idle and listen

You could do this with a cold engine as well it would idle more steady warm is all

.

[chiphead]

I don't think you want to run it without a balancer. The bottom timing gear might walk, since its held in place by the balancer snout.

[Formulas]

It will work for a short time enough time to hear the noise or not, I have already done it in 1976 watched oil spurt out from front bearing parting line
The chains go over the teeth so the chain doesn't walk same thing will keep bottom gear on some common sense goes along way here no reving to the moon just turn key listen 4 or 5 seconds turn it off

.

[Va68goat]

67gtospud,
We never tried another cam. I don't know what the next step is but I don't think me and my friends installing another cam is not part of that step. I guess I'll find out soon.

[Va68goat]

STEELCITYFIREBIRD,
Paul mentioned that when he found the bad distributor bushing, he also noticed the distributor gear had some damage. He had me send him another gear. I never saw a picture of the gear. The tech that came by to do some testing noticed the new distributor gear. He described it as having uneven wear. He said he was pretty surprised to see wear on a distributor gear that has less than 2 hours of idle time. It wasn't anything drastic. I'll get some some pictures of the gear and post it as soon as I can. I'm still waiting to hear what is going to happen next with this engine!

[Cardo]

Aw man! That's cold! But funny!!!

[68 461 Bird]

Did you get the engine out yet?

[jonmachota78]

I've been following this thread since the beginning. Been trying to keep quiet with so many knowledgeable guys weighing in but, since the beginning I've thought this sounds like a lifter. I know the lifters have been replaced but that doesn't mean that there is not another bad lifter. I don't think the noise is coming from the reciprocating assembly, it sounds like valve train frequency. And has from the beginning. I have personally replaced new defective hydraulic roller lifters with defective new hydraulic roller lifters just to have to do it yet again. Take that for what it's worth. My 2 cents. Hopefully this gets figured out soon. Jon

[Va68goat]

MarkS57,
Hahaha. No she doesn't read the forum but she knows she can't cook. Hahaha. She just wants this car running. For two years, every time we're done working on the car she comes in the garage and asks "Is it fixed yet"? She's heard the same answer from me for two years.."No not yet". I have to admit, I married well because she doesn't give me any grief.

[455-4+1]

Ha, seems like the Muppets at Romac haven't fixed a thing in over a decade !!!
I alerted them to this problem back in 2005, they told me there was nothing wrong with the unit.

After sending them photos and CAD files of the issues, they still couldn't understand what the problem was, and then told me to just machine it so it would fit LOL (modify an SFI rated product, effectively machining off the rear retention of the out hub ????)
I suggested maybe they should have done this in the first place LOL
My initial query was below.

Have measured the hub to pully mounting face and the Romac balancer agrees with the stock one (give or take)
The main difference appears to be the width if the Romac outer ring etc which as the attached drawing shows is 0.395" further back towards the block than the stock unit
This causes it to foul on aftermarket timing covers as well as the stock timing cover and sump !!!
There is only one part number for Pontiacs (and only one required for all engies from 326-455) and this balancer will fit none of them without modifying the timing cover and sump.
What do you suggest we do ????

[Va68goat]

mgarblik,
I heard Paul said it collapsed .04 and I heard him say .036 when he was on the phone with someone. I do commend Paul for flying out here and addressing this problem and Jeff for flying him out here. I'm sure it wasn't cheap and I did my part by having him stay at my house to save them some expense. No doubt that mistakes happen and I said that early on but I wasn't getting anywhere with that. I'm sure it wasn't easy for Paul to stay at my house with the bantering that we had months ago. I welcomed him here and it was actually great getting to know him. I most likely should have been upfront with the dyno failure on this thread but I was really trying not to hurt the guy or his business.

I can say this, the motor is INSANE!!! The carburetor is awesome. No doubt they produce a great product. Things just got a little crazy and I hope all of this will get worked out. It will be done off this thread though!