[mzbk2l]

Originally Posted by pontiac jack

Dumb question- what is the doorskin on that "deered" Judge made of?

I wondered that at first, too; it looked like some long fiberglass hairs sticking out. Then I looked again, and I believe it's just dented metal. The paint lifted at the crease and some of the deer hair is wedged underneath.

[blown 68]

to be honest, it looked like a whoooooole lot of filler in that area....... and deer hair.

[Big Injun]

Originally Posted by blown 68

to be honest, it looked like a whoooooole lot of filler in that area....... and deer hair.

ditto

[blown 68]

so, been chasing this part throttle lean deal, got most of it tuned out, but i picked up a pair of 625 cfm comp afb's, and i couildn't resist trying them......

i rebuilt both of them, they look great, still have the plating on the linkage, and the bodies are still pretty shiny. i broke them down, one had alot of water in it at some point, and it needed the most detail work. i have a small ultra sonic cleaner at work, man, that thing really does a number on cleaning things, you should have seen the water after i was done.....

so, with both torn completely down, i reassembled them with .101 primary jets, and .071 x .047 rods. the secondaries are .104's. quite a bit smaller than what i was running in the 750's, i had .118's in the rear, and .113's with the same rods in the primaries.....

after hooking them up, setting up my linkage, it was time to fire them up. i couldn't get one primed, but it finally went.(electric fuel pump to prime them..) it fired right up, it was cold, so i had to goose it here and there, and all of the sudden, up to 3800 rpm's, and stuck! it took me about two seconds to realize what the hell was going on, and then i hit the key.

note to self:
always remove scoop linkage when it the scoop is not attached, IT MIGHT GET CAUGHT UP AND HOLD BOTH CARBS OPEN.

well, after that little freak out, linkage gone, i fired her back up. purrs like a kitten, dead rock steady idle at 650 rpm's in gear, good ratio, 12.6 at idle.
time to drive.
part throttle is great, mid to high 13-s, the engines sweet spot. acceleration is great, mid 13's, and heavy acceleration is still compromised, just like the 750's, because of lack of boost referencing. i have a guy in town my blower guy knows, i guess he figured something out, so i will have more detail on that issue later.....

i got into her full throttle for a stretch of 3 to 4 seconds, looked ok at 13.0 even, would like it a little richer, might try jetting up the secondaries to .107's and see what we get. not quite sure if it pulls as hard, but seat of the pants is deceiving at a 60 mph start in this car, much easier to tell when i am down low, 20 mph or so. i am sure the 750's probably make more power, but i really want to see what the mileage difference is between the two.

so, overall, i am very happy with the driveability of the 625's, and i can't help but think mileage will be different, and overall city driving more enjoyable.

stay tuned for mileage results, and my vacuum advance setup, and (hopefully) boost referenced afb's...........


stay cool peeps,




davey

[andrewb70]

When are you hitting the track?

Andrew

[Silver Judge]

I was planning on going to Tiger Run but something came up and I was unable to go.
Man, looks like it was a fun time, sure would have enjoyed meeting you again and rubbing elbows with OMT and the others.

The blown GTO looks great, what a menacing ride, love it!
Nice job on finally getting the pesky oil leak eliminated and the dual quads tuned up too.

That deer hair sticking out of the judge's door is bizarre. Maybe if they put some deer hair on the driver's side as well, it would look more proper and symmetrical. I bet Chief Pontiac wore deerskin way, way, back in the day

[Old Man Taylor]

Davey (Blown68) - It was a pleasure meeting and speaking with you. You have a great car! Note that I posted the same picture in the Events section on Tiger Run. Sorry for “toying” with you a bit, but that’s me.

Derek - Nice meeting you as well. Good luck with your new engine, and I hope the intake manifold works well for you.

The event was a lot of fun. There's no question the cars are the focus of these events, but the people are what make it special, and "The Goat Herd" did a great job with this show. I will do my best to get one of my cars to the event next year. I noticed that my badge said "No car - THIS year".

[blown 68]

Originally Posted by andrewb70

When are you hitting the track?

Andrew

as soon as the dang weather and time allows! my weekends really get eaten up fast, the weather has been crap, and i have been doing the 'carb' thing, trying to get her right before i pound on it.........


so, i hooked up with a friend, karl boe,( a genius pontiac guy....) and we went over my distributor. (he's got an old sun machine.) it's got 14 crank degrees in it, i'll run 20 initial, and 34 total. starts at 1500 rpm, and is all in by 2600. we also took out my fixed setup, and installed my crane adjustable vacuum advance can. i dialed it for 15 crank degrees, starting at 6hg's, and all in by 10hg's. i cruise at 12hg's, (manifold),so at cruise, i will have 49 degrees total now.

since i am running manifold signal, i had to devise a way to shut it off at idle. i couldn't find a 12 volt direct acting 3 port solenoid to do what i want, but i did find a mechanical 3 port air solenoid that i am going to activate off of my throttle linkage. when it's at idle, it closes the vacuum line to the can off, and lets the can vent. as soon as you tip in, it allows manifold vacuum to hit the can.


so, soon i will get the distributor back in, (not easy on this motor, ugh......) and do some mileage trials with my new 625cfm afb's, then i will back that up with some testing on my vacuum advance setup, and note/share my findings....... with gas only going up, i figure every mpg counts, especially when you are feeding 474 cubic inches of supercharged pontiac.

i know some of you are probably saying, "well, what do you expect from an engine like that, of course it;s going to suck on mileage..." true, but i have a drive to get this thing running at it's absolute best economical state, drive-ability state, and making good power state. i see no reason not to tweak and tune and learn all i can, and get my car running to it's top potential on all fronts.... i am also determined to get the absolute best mileage out of this monster. i think i can better my mileage, get the car running awesome, and have fun doing it. plus, you guys get to see all of my hard work, stupid mistakes, and the progress of it all!!!


take care peeps, more pics later, too late to go out and take them right now...



davey

[mzbk2l]

Sounds like fun - can't wait to hear the results. Keep the updates coming!

[goquick]

I say keep up the good job and fun.

[Brian Baker]

"Economical" and "roots blowers" are two mutually exclusive terms.

Why not lock out the mechanical advance and run full timing all the time, using an MSD retard box to pull 20 degrees out for starting? I did this on my nitrous combo and it eliminated a lot of headaches.

[blown 68]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

"Economical" and "roots blowers" are two mutually exclusive terms.

Why not lock out the mechanical advance and run full timing all the time, using an MSD retard box to pull 20 degrees out for starting? I did this on my nitrous combo and it eliminated a lot of headaches.

agreed on the terms for sure!!

i thought about this, locking it out and using a start retard, but the thing i was trying to experiment/test with was having 49 plus degrees for cruising, and not the locked 34 or so full time, i basically have that now. does that make sense? plus i didn't want all that timing at idle for now. it may not make a darn bit of difference, my adding timing at cruise, as to what i have now, so you might have a point. this might be a bunch of thought and time for no gain. but, if it works, then it is something i have not seen a lot of blower guys do, and would be a nice thing to pull off if it does have an affect on mileage. my deal was, i want to be able to hammer it at any point, have my 'normal' mechanical advance, but at any given point of part throttle cruising,( a lot, i drive this thing in the city/on the highway all the time....) is to try to have the advantage that N.A. cars have with advanced timing to account for the partial filling of the chambers at part throttle.....


who knows. might just be a bunch of 'me and my brain spinning in circles' for a simple answer. (wouldn't be the first, won't be the last!!) but, how i see it, it's all for the experimenting sakes of it, just like everything else i've done on this project, some productive, some not so bright.

but, in the end, it's all in the name of hotroddin', learnin', sharin', and havin' some fun doin' it, and i am.................




thanks for the words folks, i am stabbing that pig back in today, so expect a full report with pics later today/tomorrow................



davey 'the mad scientist'

[blown 68]

these are my 'residuals' from saving fuel with my new carbs......

http://media.putfile.com/burnout-81-71



davey

oh, you have to tilt your head sideways, a friend did it on his phone, maybe one of you techies can tell me how to make it straight......


enjoy!!!!

[gto-owner]

Frigging Sweet.....

[Big Injun]

NOW...that is a burnout!

[Hurst65]

LOVE IT !!!!!

That was awesome!!!!

[blown 68]

ok, been awhile, family, work, you name it, the car has taken a backseat while i caught up on things......

let's see. the 625 carbs are still on the car, and WERE working great, then i had a terrible off idle bog, almost undriveable. the car had $20 worth of gas my uncle put in, and it ran like crap next time i pulled it out. so, convinced it was bad gas, i drove it a bunch, ran it out, put some more gas in, and guess what? nothing is that easy around here,
still ran like crap.
so, after checking a multitude of different variables, i decided to take the carbs apart. first carb, bowls looked ok, but the first primary cluster i pulled out had a fleck, and i mean a SMALL piece of crap in it. it was a flake of sealant that i used to block off a bowl port with an 1/8" npt plug. (insert 'i told you so' comment about being careful when using sealants on carbs here...) so, the others came apart, and that was really the only culprit. it's amazing how small of a piece of debris can cause such havoc in a carburetor. once back together again, she ran great.......

let's see, i did manage to put together my linkage activated vacuum advance setup, it works flawlessly. i hooked it up the the passenger side of the linkage, right next to the throttle return spring arm. i made a little bracket for it, mounted it, and plumbed it as follows: throttle closed, vacuum from motor (manifold) is blocked off. as soon as you tip in throttle, the motor vacuum is directed to the advance can, administering 14 additional degrees of advance. (20 initial, 34 total by 2500rpm for a total of 49 at highway speeds, at about 12"hg's in the manifold. the can is all in by 10"hg, out by 5"hg's). as soon as you let off the throttle, the switch closes, motor vacuum is again blocked off, and the advance can port is vented though a sintered bronze filter.(thank you 'work' for the donation of all the fittings, lines, filter....)

it is amazing how much the advance does make a difference at say, 60 mph cruise. i am using less pedal for sure, just barely cracking them to maintain speed. throttle response is good, but really always was. it is a little more responsive this way for sure though.

i have not yet done a proper mileage comparo, my tranny speedo reads a little fast, about 4 mph fast. i only have one other speedo gear, and have yet to take mine out, see what i have, and calculate what i need. i think i figured out one tooth bigger should slow me down to about right. that's coming up next, as i really want to do accurate mileage tracking.........

hmm, what else, oh, i won't even begin to mention the four or five cd sized oil puddles on my garage floor maybe 1500 miles into the new seal. i am busy with the carbs right now, the speedo, etc, and when i get underneath it again real soon, i will let you know what is really going on. i am hoping it's something like the pan, but when i was under there the very first time i saw oil, it was coming right off the rear main. oh, i got an interesting call from my machinist, he just got a butler rotating assembly, he said it was an ohio crank, and guess what?
there were NO oil slinging grooves. a perfectly smooth seal journal.
makes much more sense if you are using aftermarket seals, i still don't think it's good for the seal to ride on those grooves, i don't car what anybody says. the front lip seal rides on a smooth journal, and none of my cars leak there. just sayin'......

on a final note, the car has been running with a part throttle issue again, i am hoping it is another piece of crap in the carbs, but i am ready to do some idle circuit enrichment if need be, it helped the 750's, and i am sure it would wake these right up. i may post some pics later of the cluster, i still need to learn a little bit on which air bleed is the one to restrict on afb's, there are two, one brass inserted one, and one in the top of the cluster, right in the aluminum housing. both lead to the idle fuel well/feed tube.


okay folks, more later, i am at the beach right now, enjoying doing nothing, i will update when i get home. here are a few pics of the new vacuum switch, and one of the bypass for when the manifold goes into boost. i use this for my tranny, and now the distributor. it is a real simple setup, there is a passage with a check ball in the top port, and when there is boost instead of vacuum in the lower ports, it just bleeds off throught the top port back to vacuum above the blower......

yeah, some of this stuff may seem over complicated, but i love all the mechanical aspects of my car. lots of cool things to look at!!!!!!


see ya!!


davey

[blown 68]

quicky update: i FINALLY go the carbs and the vacuum advance all working in harmony together, for a great driving result.....

my part throttle lean issue was driving me nuts, so i just thought what the heck, make it really fat at idle with the mixture screws, and maybe they will supply enough fuel to overcome the lag i had at part throttle. totally worked! she's down at 12 even, sometimes dipping into the 11's on the air/fuel ratio at idle, too fat for my liking, but part throttle is now in the 13's, right where it's happy. anything above 14.0 on my gauge, and she sputters a bit, and loses power. so, mid thirteens seem to be the happy spot, returning the smoothest ride with the most power/least pedal....

now for the vacuum advance: 48 degrees total part throttle was too much, she was fartin' a bit, so after removing the distributor twice for adjustments,(can you say fun? there is NO room behind that blower.....) i made my own notch in the adjustable can's stop plate, settling in at 41 degrees total mechanical and vacuum advance. total mechanical is still at 34, initial is at 20. she rumbles at a nice shaky idle of 700 to 800 rpm's, tips in great, and cruises better than ever. i am amazed at how little pedal it takes to keep the car moving at 60mph plus, hardly anything, i don't even think i am hardly hitting the primary circuit before 40mph plus. so right now i am completely satisfied with how it runs, other than being a bit fat in the curve here and there to compensate for the part throttle lean issue, but other than that, i feel the car is running as efficiently as it can with this setup.......

next up? the tranny, i need to adjust my speedo gears to get her to read right, then i can take some road trips and calculate my mileage for real, and see if the vacuum does anything for it, versus running without, mechanical timing only. in my opinion, it seems that it would help some, i swear i am using less pedal for the same power. we'll see, either way, it's running batter than it ever has.

i noticed i am going though a lot of oil, it used/burnt/magically digested, 1 quart for a 130 mile drive, both ways. i have a pcv in the valve cover, i have a hard time seeing it suck that much through it, baffled grommets as well. there is a breather in the valley pan, but no oil in the breather tank connected to it. it doesn't smoke at all, i don't smell it, it's not leaking that much, so i am kinda stumped. they are not new rings, maybe they are taking time to reseat? not sure. any mystery oil usage suggestions are encouraged, as i am baffled.......


ok, that's all for now, yeah, it still leaks a bit, about a silver dollar sized puddle after each outing. but, that's another story, right now she's gettin' driven, end of story.......





davey

[blown 68]

long time no post!.....

well, i had given the car to my uncle for him to store and drive, since i last wrote. he has been driving it here and there, and it's doing great. summer is just about over here, and i hadn't seen the car in a few months, (i've been driving the '63 catalina....) and really wanted to get some drive time in before the weather's up......

first off, i am so happy with the way this baby is running now, rock steady thumpin' idle at about 750rpm's, excellent off idle transition, air fuel ratio's look beautiful, my timing advance setup is working like a charm under all conditions, part throttle, heavy throttle, and of course full throttle. (although that one is a rarity, not a lot of ground around here to pull that one off much......)

i took her out all weekend, went cruzin' around running errands, hit some beautiful riverside roads, probably racked up 150 miles or so, without so much as a hiccup. well, my fuel pressure gauge gave out, but i had it replaced in the parking lot of the auto parts store in about ten minutes. other than that, she ran like a champ. oh, i do have some moisture underneath, but it's not a deal breaker like before. i guess this thing is always going to be a wet one, as i am not really into tearing it out again anytime soon. i want to work on my 63 cat next, building a superduty motor for it, i'll start a thread for that one in the big car section when i get started.......

so, here are some pics, and some quick vids of me driving. they are brief, i was in the city, one handed, traffic, street tires a slippin' every which way, you get the drift. when i have a companion with me along for a ride next time, i'll find a more remote location, do some smoky burnouts, and some in car footage with me actually driving with TWO hands on some longer roads........

enjoy!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-nL867-riI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbcbhs_ldqs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_TZC2LUTWI

here is re-visit to the first fire up as well, on a higher idle than it is now....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGtaoWPANxA

davey



ps, had some fun with the contrast, anyone up for a split pea green blown goat?

[Silver Judge]

Killer Vids Davey, thanks for posting. That '68 is a BEAST I love it!
I am not fond of Monday mornings but seeing this made it a good day for me!