[Tom Vaught]

Just a comment on your Quick 16 deal over the years.

Until just recently you would not see a BUTLER running against a Kauffman (in a rail or door car)
or the Butlers running in any Quick 16 deal as they only ran exhibition runs. Same for Marty.

The Butlers would run Arnie typically.

Tom V.

[dwallace]

Rob,

Just for the record, my best 2004 quarter mile run, which was at Norwalk, was 8.328 and 156.88 mph. Which isn't bad considering it is just a 400, all motor, that I threw together just to make the last Joliet Pontiac race (that got rained out)shortly after blowing my good 455 that year (2001 or 2002???). So, the 400 that was originally built to be a daily driver for my 69 convertible, and intended to be used for just one Pontiac race and to finish up the points races that year, has been in the rail since. Short times at Norwalk were in the 1.152 (I think that was the best) range, but, at our track consistantly is in the 1.11-1.13 range with 1/8 mile times of low to mid 5.20's. My best 1/8 mile on the car with the 455 was 5.15 at 131 at IRP, so, the little 400 is holding it's own, just doesn't have the top end like the big boys. The car also runs every weekend, averaging 6 runs per race, still together after all of this time. Consistent, reliable, and very low dollar.

[Brian Baker]

When I first tried drag racing in the mid 80's (at Capitol Raceway), they were still using the method OMT mentioned to measure 1/4 mile MPH. They had cones in the center of the track where the lights/reflectors were located (not the orange styrofoam boxes like today). You always stayed in the throttle until you passed the 3rd cone on the top end of the track to get an accurate MPH reading. It's probable that this is where the term "driving it out the back door" came from.

[Ray Cox]

Sorry Rob just hate seeing a guy like minus that dosent do anything or have a clue talk about somthing he knows nothing about.

[Tom Vaught]

Quote:

"On the box for the 71 BOSS BIRD FUNNY CAR diecast -RAM AIR V heads-it stated ARNIE dipped into the 6.80's Cool."

I can't figure out why all of my 1969 to 1973 magazines are wrong?



Tom V.

Wait a couple of years and it will be quicker.

[Rob]

Glenn, I will add Rod Page to my Pontiac stats, Todd Fontana is the only guy to outrun Rod with Victor/Dominator NA.

Dave, I don't have good stats on your car, have pretty good stats on you reaction times though!

In 1998 David and Rodney Butler qualified 2nd and 3rd in the KRE Q16.

-Rob

[Steve Barcak]

the guy from Fl wants to forget about what others have done with Pontiacs in the past and eliminate them so some of the n/a carb guys and some bottle people can get on. HA!
ET and MPH accomplishments stand and should always be recognized. these are important things that men have done with real Pontiac power.
If you want to have another list for the slower carb n/a cars and the bottle guys fine. Let's have one for blue cars too. and one for green cars. One for cars with mag wheels too. How about one for cars with am/fm radios. LOL

How many cars on that list ran 12" tires and no transmission?
Another thing- If someone went faster with multiple cars, they should be acknowledged on the list for each car. Arnie had 3 at least, Gay had 3 at least. Tyree maybe 2, Hill probably 2 or 3. etc, etc
Steve www.pontiacheaven.org

[Scott Misus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian Baker:Scott Rex, 7.68 naturally aspirated on gasoline, in a door car. That shouldn't be recognized as the fastest PONTIAC powered door car on the planet...ever? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, because it's NOT the fastest Pontiac-powered door car.

There are several mentioned that are both faster and have doors.

[Tom Vaught]

Jeff Covey (Marty Palbykin's driver) ran a best pass in the 1996 time frame in the 7.40s (skipping second gear, 1st-3rd) on his first trip to Norwalk with the 25-1C Turbo Car.
He also ran as you mentioned a pass in the 7.60s and an inital pass in the 7.80s when everyone
else was in the 8s (with a door car). The 7.40 made him faster than the rails that year even
with the trans issues.

This was the year that EVERYONE SAID that you would "split the factory block" at 1000 hp.
How wrong everyone was! There was 1600 hp in that factory block, ran it for a couple of years too with no block issues.

Good list Rob, Hope this helps.

In 1996-1997 I was helping Marty and the Keens. In 1998 only the Keens.

[Steve Barcak]

The recreated "Shudder Bug" Pontiac Top Fueler.
Steve www.pontiacheaven.org

[Glenn Brusse]

Jim Brusse is my son. Do I dare ask what did he do now? Or do you just like the "Death by Pontiac" T-shirts ?

[Tom Vaught]

Maybe I am the one confused, Maybe George said that they ran in the 6s for the first time (but did not make the MPH).

I might be wrong on my post.

Tom V.

[Mike Davis]

John I would ask the reps to go but I feel it should be the promoters responsibility. They could give the manufacturers free display area and everyone could feed off it- The more aftermarket parts available for that make, the more racers there will be showing up for the race. Every other make that has a race-IE Fun Ford, Super Chevy have a loaded manufactures midway with everyone from E-brock to MSD. Let's face it who wants to look at 30 year old worn out junk? Years ago it was neat to look at the swap meet area but in the past 2 years the quality and quantity wasn't there. People are scrapping the bottom of the barrel to find stuff to sell-and MOST of what was there wasn't worth looking at. Time for some new parts to be produced and the only way to get them produced is to show these guys we are serious by the numbers! As all the factory performance stuff has been used up and the very few after market pieces are all on cars we are extinguishing ourselves. How many people on this board go to swap meets hoping to find the "holy grail" part they have been looking for to go home empty handed-there might have been 3 after market intakes at Norwalk last year and they were all over priced. To have more fast cars we need more parts that are reasonably priced. Best thing to do is just put together some junk - blow it up in front of these reps and then say if I had a new forged crank I could be competitive

[Brian Baker]

Ventura, I wasn't trying to take anything away from what Steve is trying to accomplish, I was merely trying to make him see how much of an a$$ he sounded like with his last comment.

Doesn't matter that he wasn't driving, he's still tuning it. You make it sound like "running 7's in a go kart" is easy. Well, if it were, everyone on this board with a dragster would be doing it. Steve is still sorting out his tuneup, and when the clutch is finally figured out and he can keep all 8 candles lit at the same time without grenading it, it should run solidly into the 6's at well over 200-MPH. Like many of us though, Steve has too many pokers in the fire, which takes away some of his focus on the dragster. I've told him before via email (and others probably have too), that if he quit trying to compile so many different race cars and just concentrated over the next year or two on the dragster, he'd get what he's going for, and that is the quickest and fastest 1/4 mile ticket ever by a traditional Pontiac powered vehicle.

[Brian Baker]

Rob, thanks for the Q16 list. For the sake of "accuracy" however, I think Ken was looking for who actually staged in the 1st round, and the slowest qualifier to stage in round 1 would have been the bump spot. Did Zeek or Scott make 1st round?

[GTOGEORGE]

Gee, you guys are killing me! My car was OFF the trailer Friday morning and didn't get loaded back up until Sunday afternoon

2003 at Norwalk I raced all weekend even WON Saturday and got down to the semi's in the Quick 16...........never got towed to or from a run and Ray was broke all weekend. I guess that makes us even......no.....wait..... I'm up on Ray because I won Super Pro on Saturday and got some prize money Sunday(3rd Place). I don't think Ray won any money at Norwalk last year. . We'll see what happens this year, because I have one up on you guys I know how QUICK I have run last year (2004).

[Scott Misus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian Baker:
It's only been in the last 10 years of the 35 that you mentioned that any degree of improvement in parts has occurred.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That doesn't matter.

Illustration:

Take Arnie's best times, in either his '68, '69 or '70 funny cars.

Then, take a look at what he used for:

1. block/cylinder heads/head flow cfm/intake manifold
2. crank
3. camshaft/springs
4. ignition system
5. fuel system, and pump gpm
6. blower size and rotor configuration
7. transmission type
8. tire type, size and compound
9. chassis type, design and technology & wheelbase.

Arnie:

1. factory block
2. factory cylinder heads; 421SD & RAV
3. factory crankshaft; 990
4. low rise, cast M/T blower intake
5. camshaft and springs probably mild by today's standards; probably used 4 cyl. Tempest timing chain.
6. ignition system: Vertex magneto; 3 amps
7. Enderle 110, probably 12 gpm
8. Blower was a 6-71, probably magnesium; 60 degree rotors with no teflon or nylatron strips.
Enderle bugcatcher injector; small barrel valve; no Racepack computer.
9. TH400 tranmission, mfgd by General Mistake.
10. No idea on tire size, but it definitely wasn't a 17x36 funny car tire.
11. Chassis was a Logghe square tube frame with coil sprung suspension front and rear.

Bill Mellott(or Rodney Butler): I can't comment on Rodney's hardware, as I've never seen the car. I'll stick with what I somewhat know about Bill's:

1. $3500 IA block
2. $10,000 billet heads/$2500 billet blower intake
3. Crankshaft: billet?; $2500 Crower?
4. Camshaft: I'm assuming big; 290 duration?
5. Ignition: $3,000 MSD 44 amp Pro Mag with $600 offset magneto drive.
6. Fuel pump: Enderle 1200; 19 gpm.
7. Blower: Littlefield 14-71 with high-helix rotors, probably Kobelco. With teflon and nylatron strips. $2500, used.
8. Injector: Enderle buzzardcatcher with big nitro-style barrel valve.
9. Racepack computer.
10. Lenco 4 speed; $3500 used. Crower clutch $2400 used.
11. Tire size: 16x33?
12. Chassis type: current moly/strut/4 link.

This is not meant as a commentary on either Bill's equipment or on the Kaufmann's abilities. It's simply a comparison between what I feel is fast today, and what I feel was fast 35 years yesteryear.

And I won't even begin to compare the accomplishments of the Butlers' (full-time, professional engine builders, with extensive outside R&D and turbocharger consultants on the team), and the stratospheric costs of their hardware, versus the 35 year old accomplishments of a modest farmer from Morrison, Illinois......

One can't possibly be a fan of fast Pontiac racing and not, at least conciously, make the comparison between where we are now versus where we were then.

And nobody's condemning Scott Rex's accomplishments, either. Scott could choose to use any power adder he wants; rather, he's decided to make a name for himself by going it "naked" with carburetors only.

I'm done now.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Jack post your ET, MPH and info as in Johnta1 post.

I'm keeping a copy of this on my computor and need all corrections and updated info as far as Block and fuel power for the top 20........ or others that were left out in the country with better times that would fit the top 20 for 2004. Thanks.

[johnta1]

And what type of blocks and power adder?

1. John Welter/R. Butler ..... 2002 Bird ......... [email protected] ... Turbo ..... IA I
2. Mark Kauffman ............. 1997 Bird ......... [email protected] ... Supercharged ..... IA I
3. Bill Mellott ........... 1997 Bird ......... [email protected] ... Supercharged ..... IA I
4. Bill Krech ............... 1999 Bird ......... [email protected] ... NO2 ..... IA I
5. Mike Cooper ............... 1963 Tempest........ 7.30@193 ... Supercharged ..... IA I
6. Paul Spotts ............... FED ......... [email protected] ... Supercharged ..... OEM?
7. Steve Barcek .............. FED ......... 7.50@189 ... Supercharged ..... OEM
8. Scott Rex ................. 1997 Bird ......... [email protected] ... On Motor ..... IA I
9. Jim Yanoski ............... 2000 Bird ......... [email protected] ... NO2 ..... IA I?
10. Todd Filson ............... RED ......... [email protected] ... On Motor ..... IA I?
11. Jim Brady ................. RED ......... 7.87@170 ... On Motor ..... IA I?
12. Jack Gaydosh .............. 2000 Bird ......... 7.94@172? ... On Motor ..... IA I?
13. Michael Packo.............. RED ......... [email protected] ... ? ..... IA I?
14. Shane Molinari............. 68 Lemans ......... [email protected] ... NO2? ..... IA I?
15. John Wallace............... RED ......... [email protected] ... On Motor ..... OEM
16. Brad Smuland............... 97 Bird ......... [email protected] ... NO2 ..... OEM
17. Bruce Maichle.............. 79 Bird ......... 8.50??/ ... NO2 ..... IA I?
18. Jeff Sams.................. 63 Tempest ......... [email protected] ... NO2 ..... IA I?
19. Ray Cox.................... 77? TA ......... 8.60@162 ... NO2 ..... IA I?
20. Maurizio Campolucci........ 96 GP ......... [email protected] ... NO2? ..... IA I?

My brother also ran about the same et as me at Norwalk.

[Wade Congdon]

Rob,

You should probably rename your list Quickest rather than Fastest based on your order by ET rather than MPH. Nevertheless it is quite an impressive list, thanks for compling it!