[Scott Misus]

Scott:

Doesn't Summit have a machine shop that you could have used?

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Ditto.

[Roar]

What # was it on the cylinders and pistons that went ?
...................
U see I just dont get that the alu will go trough the oilfilter unless there arent something wrong with the filter.
Another thing the rods had new ARP bolts. You havent assembled the engine your self so I dont expect an answer to this, but those ARP bolts are not so great as people believe they are. Wrong torque procedure and they are way off. And this will show up very fast to.
But why the cylinder walls and piston scores ? Thats why i am curios to what Cylinder # it is.
Could it infact be bearing materiale that have scored the cylinders ?
Or is the cylinder trouble the cause of it ?
Since u havnt assembled it your self , the builder can have made an error that you arent aware of. That happens to us all sooner or later.

[ July 21, 2002, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: Roar ]

[Ponti]

...it sounds to me the Old DICKster from I.A. screwed up the engine ROYALY...and now Goatman is back-pedaling very quickly to help protect his little friend/engine builder who seeks business from this board!!!!

Regards, Mike

[Hot Rod]

H.I.
Are we going to have to go tire chasing with those C-clips? Is that some kind of new sport like Cow tipping, Snipe Hunting, and Scott Misus's personal favorite Bobbing for Road apples.
LOL!!!!!
Man you must love living on the edge, when one of those breaks at a the least a tire, and possible body damage and how about when the slick when it hits the rear quarter that would suck or worse yet it takes off and lands in George's lap at the Grove!

Rodney

[SCOTT ESTERLE]

Well said.

[Goatman]

Larry, its time for the Tall Deck to come out and play...................

No more stock timing covers or stock blocks for this kid.

[ddouble]

Hot Rod good post.
Ccass good call.
Goatman sorry about the motor, keep us posted on findings. At this point blame is not the issue. Not letting it happen again is.
Good luck,
Dan

[Will]

That really blows. I haven't had an engine as powerful as yours, but so far my track record isn't much better.

The too-long bolt theory is a good one. Another possibility is that there was some debris in that hole and when the bolt was screwed in it blew the back of the cover out around it.

Good luck with whatever you do next.

[Goatman]

Mark, I really, really apreciate that. I would still need a set of pistons, rings, bearings, oil pump, and a balance. The deal I have worked out for the 461 stroker assembly will provide me with everything I need for next year. I'm pondering the purchase of a rotary style oil pump and the accompanying oil pan mods that it requires. I think I'll have to wait untill next year to get it all together, hopefully very early in the season. I'm still kicking around all kinds of ideas/fantasies/formulas/options. It all hinges on the chassis man and his desire to feed his steadily growing family.

I will have what I believe will be a .040" stroke, .030" on the rods 1970 455 "N" crank for sale shortly for that block, if you're interested. It will be cheaper than a set of used slicks, I guarantee it!

[ July 24, 2002, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Goatman ]

[Half-Inch Stud]

I think it's clear that the diagnosis is incomplete, or better yet missing information. Wish I was there to go through it.

I doubt the aluminum piece was a root cause of oil pump or bearing failure, or added any aspect to unusual wear patterns.

I do not consider the aluminum or any foreign matter a contributor to the cylinder scuffing.
Rather, the cylinder scuffing is from the piston-to-wall loading and hot tolerance, and break-in fit(so much for torqueplates), but not from a lube situation. Seems unusual to conclude that any bores need sleeving after scuffing. Please consider using the bores as-is until further notice.

I sense a play for sympathy. Seems you imply a spun #5 rod bearing. But you said it got "wiped-out"...perhaps it did not spin. Perhaps the Rod gets inspected for roundness (what kind of Rod?, was it used/tested before?). Try this: #5 gets a new rod bearing, and the crank journal gets a strap-polish. See IT's not so bad.

Now, about the Oil Pump: Did the oil pump shaft break?!?!?!

NO, then you must go into the block and INSPECT THE CAM BEARINGS. My bet is the cam bearings got wiped and sent debris to the crank bearings.

cam bearing. cam bearings cam bearings

H.I. Stud

[Half-Inch Stud]

HA! got the Lunati HYD during lunch today...classic day late.

Hmmm, do I go with the Solid or the HYD?

[Scott Misus]

Originally posted by Goatman:
but I will still try to educate the poor lost souls out there in wanna-be race land, for all to find humor in. OK, bro?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OK, Ace. Fair enough.

Please, then, educate me on the reasons why the ARP bolts are better for holding a water pump on than are factory-supplied bolts. Besides the fact that they're shiney.

You're on.

[Tom Vaught]

Well, I got my 461 crank assy (4.25 stroke x 4.155
bore) back from Moldex. They dusted off the STD/
STD journal sizes with a .001 cut on both to get
more clearance and also to get rid of the high spots on the crank as it comes from Eagle. The Old Man, (Bob Gillian), says the crank passed
mag just fine. He says he does about 10 Chevy cranks (Eagle) per week, with the slight massage.
Crank now has same clearances as a stock Ram Air
IV crank had. Very happy with the price for all
of the extra time checking out the crank. (150.00)
Tom V.

[Goatman]

We had 57 psi at 6100 on our last pull, which I already knew something was wrong. We started the motor up again and we had 7 psi. Very strange, that's why we thought that the oil pump had failed or maybe the pickup fell off.

All the bearings had the coating taken off of them and you could tell something got through them, but for same reason, the #5 was down to the copper and the crank was scored there. The rest of the crank is fine. No marks at all.

Checked the pistons and heads for signs of detonation and that was OK too, in fact the piston tops were mint. The dyno we were on has two ways of measuring A/F ratio's and they were both reading 12's and 13's and 14's throughout the pulls. Nothing out of the ordinary. The motor sounded real strong too. Plus, like I said before, it was using more than 100% of its air, even on the last pull.

There was hardly any metal in the bottom of the pan and I haven't touched the filter yet and probably won't as it doesn't really matter now.

Is it possible I might have missed soemthing? Yeah, I guess anything is possible. But it just seems to me that there would have been more evidence if something else was really going on.

Its a mystery to us, with the results being the same, I'm out of commision for at least a year.

[SCOTT ESTERLE]

We used to have a shop but they wouldn't let us use it because it was like an assembly line. They were to busy building SBC. When we got out of that they sold all of the equipment.

[gtoguy1967]

[/QUOTE] Take a nice, clean factory bolt, with good plating, wire-wheel the threads, [QUOTE]

i will take any of these that anyone has laying around as the ones on my car longer (and havent for years) look anything like this.

[STripleduce]

Was the pump dis assembled and cleaned before install? Reason I ask is Because I'm currently rebuilding my bottom end due to bearing failure.Upon inspection of my pump after wards I found the gears& face plate badly scoured.No debry found in pickup or problems w/screen.As I received my new pump I dis assembled it and found aproximatly a quarter T-spoon of metal shaving in the by-pass which could easily get past the filter by-pass on a cold startup and cause severe damage.The pump was a Mellings SD (foret P#)new not reman.My bearing failure was on 4 & 5.

[Ponti]

...Just be honest dude...we all know what obviously happened!

I'd want a refund or have the motor work warrantied and post this topic on PY's Pontiac Better Business Bureau instead!

[Goatman]

HIS, firstly, I appologize for my earlier comments......I should be up and running next year. Traded my 455 block with caps and bore brace for a standard bore 400 block with splayed main caps. Traded my other 455 short block for a 3" main stroker crank. Will look at the rods closely and mag and check for straightness. Need new bearings, pistons, and rings, and that's about it. So, it seems I'll come up about the same. Less CI, less friction, anyone care to guess the difference offset in HP?

You are correct in that the crank isn't as bad as I thought and should be fixed by next week. I need a buyer. Oil pump is waiting for its autopsy, but a tux fitting tomorrow night and birthday plans for a best friend preclude such frivolities untill Saturday or Sunday. I'm not keen on performing surgery on the oil filter, as it seems to be mute at this point. Hope I find that timing cover piece somewhere, as it still perplexes me.

Not saying it will run 12's , but it should be alright for embarrasing plenty of folks just to see me make a pass, while they're still spectating.