[taximan]

Very interesting. I guess if you read between the lines, that means :

1. he has the engine seq. #'s
2. he is not going to release them.

That gets back to my original suggestion: What if we send Jim our vin #, and proof of ownership, along with the engine seq. # on our car. He can then simply tell us if it is correct or not.
That way no numbers are being released by PHS, yet we can find out if the engine seq# is correct.

Personally I don't think its a big deal since the vin derivative is already stamped in to the block, but it would further authenticate our car.

[darren]

I have an Oshawa built 70 judge and my GM of Canada docs list the engine number I recieved the paper work dec 2001

[dancolkate]

Anyone out there with a 70 WS?
I'll bet the last two digits of your seq # are 76.

[johnta1]

You're on!

70 WS MUN - 0162030

[johnta1]

gtohurstjudge was quoted as saying he always saw 6 digits in the MUN.

That's because Pontiac never expected to make over a million engines in a model year, thus 6 digits.
In 1969 they thought they may make more than a million engines, so they started using 7 digits for the MUN. They never did do it.

[dancolkate]

John.....I owe you a beer....crap. Back to the Abacus.

Held for Ransom,
You are right on.

[darren]

I"ve got two 70 WS blocks one MUN is 0512274 and the other is 062188

[Held for Ransom]

All the information was gleaned from your build sheet. Noticed afterwards you had it (trim tag) posted elsewhere, including your PHS sheet. Although, nothing anywhere that would indicate your PEN. As to your BF 5374, it means it was the 5374th GTO produced at the Fremont plant for the '69 model year, in this case. Oh, and it was the 317th car in the production line for that day.

[taximan]

My code is 0755758 on a 69' YZ engine. Built in Pontiac , late May, 1969.

[dancolkate]

You guys really know your *****.
The MUN thing is wearing me out. Might have to let it go for now.

Been thinking of a vanity plate.......Maybe MUN HUH

[Steve Hoog]

Dan

Have a couple of beers, get your car running and lets go drag racing.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

OK, before you guys go ordering vanity plates and creating episodes for network TV - it's an ENGINE not a motor. My high school auto mech instructor drilled that into our grey matter permanently. Starters, windshield wipers, heater fans, etc... are motors. Points were deducted from grades for every instance of improper engine/motor grammar (he was hardcore). EUN not MUN.

DAN C: Your efforts are very valiant, but will probably be fruitless. Not your fault and no harm in trying.

What I get from the latest posting concerning J.M. of PHS is that Pontiac has enough Legal arbitration instances occurring already. The engine unit number could open doors for even more instances of litigation for them.

As far as the "protection of the information" I think he is referencing to the requests of those who want all the records for every certain type vehicle. Like the folks who want to compile a complete data base for all 69 Judges, or all 73 Super Duty T/A's, etc... Remember when ALL the VIN's were published for every 70 Ram IV T/A in McCarthys book ? That was a mistake that should have never happened. And he addresses VIN plates being manufactured and re-applied to create or re-create particular vehicles. Those are the principles he refers to regarding protection of the info. In the wrong hands, or made recklessly available - multiples of "rare and expensive" Cars could become abundant. Just pick your favorite Color and drivetrain and go.

The only people/things being "protected" by non-disclosure of the engine unit numbers are those who have re-stamped engines in the past for profit and/or desirability advantages. There is absolutely no other legitimate reason or concern. Why should those persons be protected and further allowed to continue reckless behaviors ? This information "may" allow future restorers to likewise restamp blocks accordingly, but those un-restored Cars are not the majority or the ones that are previously and currently changing hands for record breaking prices. The longer it takes for this info to become available, the more people who will fall victim or be caught with their pants down around their stamping dyes.

[Held for Ransom]

Fine, I'll start calling it a PEN (production engine number) as stated in the Service Manual, makes no difference to me. By the way, it dies not dyes.

[dancolkate]

Steve,
Have you heard anything back from the president of GTOAA?

[johnta1]

Maybe Engine Production Number -EPN?
Here's a scan of a 66 Service Crafstman News of it.

The next is a scan of the 66 tag showing the EPN on it along with the VIN and stuff.

[Steve Hoog]

Yes, but I'll tell you in a PM.

[johnta1]

More scans:

The first refers to a recall using Engine sequence numbers.
The second refers to the same engines using the VIN's.

[dancolkate]

OK John, I'm back on it. If there is a mathematical way to get from one number to the other.......I will figure it out.

[md1twal3]

dun-taaa, du-ta, dun-taaa, dun-taaa, dunta, duntada.....

(this is supposed to be the theme song for Mission Impossible for you, Dan!)

[dancolkate]

Now THAT is funny.

Now I'm trying to convert each number using a binary system. Won't be long now.

Dunt...dunt...da da.....dunt dunt.....da da.