[MikeNoun]

Steve, I'm almost positive the 69's had the inner structure holes punched regardless of whether it was a standard or Ram Air hood. I imagine the Pontiac Engineers designed the 69 Ram Air upper pan, then all 69 hood bracing had the punched holes for the pan if needed. As we know, the 69 Ram Air hoods had some inner bracing cutaway by the factory, unlike the 67/68's where the dealer had to do the cutting, and the 69 Ram Air hoods didn't have the punched holes for the emblems.

67/68 Ram Air's are interesting, because based on the diagram, the dealer had to drill holes in the inner structure, cut out the scoops, chop some inner bracing, and mount the pan. It's amazing that Pontiac trusted their dealers to do this work back then. With today's technicians and their lack of manual skills, you'd end up with holes in the hood, grinder marks in the paint, and a reciprocating saw blade sticking out of the passenger side 400 emblem.

Then there's those "RAM AIR" emblems (not stickers) that popped up on E-Bay a while ago. Does anyone know for sure if those emblems were truly RAII pieces? Does anyone's RAII car have those emblems?

[Steve Hoog]

I have owned several 68's and a couple of 69's but never paid enough attention to these details in a manner to talk about it with accuracy. This is one of those subjects that I would have to be looking at hard part examples to get with the program; I’m more than happy to take your word as gospel on the various hoods and holes.

It does not surprise me at all they expected the dealer to install the 7’s and 8’s. We still to this day install factory options here at the dealership; and I mean as the cars were ordered, not over the counter. I have a pile of hundred + invoices right in front of me for parts shipped along with the vehicle for us to install, but they are billed with the vehicle and not through the parts department.

It would be my dream that we were living the 60’s right now and installing Ramair pans; instead of Yukon running boards.

[brians]

This had been some great reading!

Cammer-6: If you have any factory documents related to the change date, please post it. I was told years ago by what I would call a very reliable source that any RA car ordered after a set date would be the 68-1/2 style. (He also stated there was a price increase) Unfortunately, I have never been able to find any factory or sales documentation to prove or disprove it.

MikeNoun:
The 69 F/B with air inlet had a different hood part# then the std. 400 hood. The dealer had to cut the 67/68 hood (and 68 GTO). And yes, they usually butchered it. Talked to one original owner that was so mad at how they did it, that he tried to refuse the car without a new hood.

If anyone is interested, I have a much cleaner copy of the 68 instructions
(I can email a higher resolution file to anyone interested)

Brian

[johnta1]

From a 1968 Illus Manual it says:

1st type RA head used thru serial number 646615
2nd type RA head used 646616 and up

[va400bird]

According to McCarthy's book, the 646616 EUN applies to the 67 ram airs. That's when the 670 heads were replaced with 97's...

[mmarx]

Originally Posted by va400bird

According to McCarthy's book, the 646616 EUN applies to the 67 ram airs. That's when the 670 heads were replaced with 97's...

The MPC shows this change over and it's for '68...

Mike

[Cammer-6]

Originally Posted by mmarx

The MPC shows this change over and it's for '68...

Mike

Whats the date of your MPC?

[Steve Hoog]

I got that same info in the Canadian DVD MPC.

[The Boss]

One of my XW's falls into that range, I'll have to check the other.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by MikeNoun

Just an FYI for you RAI/RAII guys, there's an original Ram Air setup on E-bay right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1967-...spagenameZWDVW

Boy, that wasn't cheap!

Winning bid:US $4,550.00 Ended:Aug-17-07 18:11:03 PDT

[RA1John]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Boy, that wasn't cheap!

Winning bid:US $4,550.00 Ended:Aug-17-07 18:11:03 PDT

Other than the tab on the bottom of the Baffle, the repro Baffle & Shroud are very accurate. I saw a comparison several years ago of the very first repro baffle side-by-side with the original '67 the tooling was made from. Could not tell the difference.
This is an example of someone w/more money than common sense.
Nice parts for sure but no way worth $4550 IMO.
(BTW... there were some shill bids in this auction).

Scoops were not unique (had same part number as closed version).
Rare ones are those cast open w/unique part numbers. '67 Factory Ram Air Firebirds received the standard scoop which was machined open.

[RA1John]

...67/68 Ram Air's are interesting, because based on the diagram, the dealer had to drill holes in the inner structure, cut out the scoops, chop some inner bracing, and mount the pan.

When I first discovered this modification on my '68 RAI Conv, I brought it up to Jim Mattison (The "Historian"). He basically told me that my hood must have been altered by a former owner as that wasn't correct. When I saw him at a show, I pointed out the crude cut/hack on his own '68 RA Coupe at which point he said.. "oh".

...Then there's those "RAM AIR" emblems (not stickers) that popped up on E-Bay a while ago. Does anyone know for sure if those emblems were truly RAII pieces? Does anyone's RAII car have those emblems?

My first car ('68 GTO) had a '69 Ram Air Hood (w/baffle) on it with holes drilled in the sides of the scoops (filled in). Upon sanding this area down, the impression of 'Ram Air' emblems was visible. I remember asking the Pontiac Dealer for new 'Ram Air' emblems at the time (1978)... he gave me a set of Ram Air decals after telling me the emblems had been discontinued. Very odd.

[MikeNoun]

John, thanks for the info. Those Ram Air emblems always facsinated me since I saw them on E-bay. So much speculation, so few facts.

When that 68 RAII appeared in HPP, with a reference to those emblems on its hood, that just stirred the pot. Jim Mattison claimed the emblems were "probably" aftermarket. What's strange is that no one seems to know for sure.

My opinion : I find it hard to believe that an aftermarket manufacturer in 1968 would go to the trouble (and expense) to produce a die-cast Ram Air emblem, in the same font and style as a 400 emblem, with mounting posts to fit the 67/68 Firebird hood. Seems like a such a small market, unless of course they were looking at selling these to anyone with a Firebird 400, whether they had Ram Air or not, for the "cool factor". Just plopping "Ram Air" anywhere on your car back in that era was considered cool. I would bet that some guys even used mailbox lettering from an Ace Hardware back then.

It made a bit more sense that Pontiac produced the emblems, and never used them in production. With Ram Air being all the rage in 1967/1968, Pontiac could have easily cast up these emblems for the 68 RAII, but with so few sales, they ended up in the parts bins. For cost effectiveness, Pontiac could have thought about using these emblems for any Firebird 400 owner that wanted to retrofit a Ram Air setup. Think about it; after paying to get a Ram Air setup retrofitted to a regular 67/68 Firebird 400, it would have been a shame to not broadcast the fact you now had Ram Air. Logically, because the Firebird 400's already had holes in the hood for the 400 emblems, a replacment emblem would make perfect sense. It was either that, or have the dealer fill the holes, repaint the hood, and use Ram Air decals. Obviously, not cost effective.

All theories here....but I'd love to know the true story.....

[ramair2]

one poblem with this theory....if true why didnt ram air iv 1969 firebirds have ram air emblems on the hood? its been confirmed multiple times that 69 RA IV birds had 'ram air iv' decals (not emblems). to me THAT is insane and cost ineffective.

all non ra 4 firebirds get 400 emblem with drilled holes and the minescule number of 69 RA IV birds built (102) get a factory-special non drilled 400 hood? this must have been nuts during assembly ?

anyhow i digress...presumably if PMD went the ram air emblem route on 68 RA II birds (either in production of for parts reorder), why would they go to decals in 1969, especially when 67-9 400 hoods were identical?

that said, i can contact owner number two of my ram air II bird....ill ask him exactly what the car had on its hood when he bought it in 1971.

ps on a related aside..the hpp car that had these emblems was a 68 RA I nightshade 4speed coupe...not a ram air II ca...plus (again this is in the herersay column but im just passing on what i heard about 4 years ago)...a parts dealer in massechussets years after that article told me HE produced those ram air emblems in the late 70s-80s...again HIS words not mine...just mentioning this since 'an all theory' request was put out there..take all this for what its worth....

=======================
It made a bit more sense that Pontiac produced the emblems, and never used them in production. With Ram Air being all the rage in 1967/1968, Pontiac could have easily cast up these emblems for the 68 RAII, but with so few sales, they ended up in the parts bins. For cost effectiveness, Pontiac could have thought about using these emblems for any Firebird 400 owner that wanted to retrofit a Ram Air setup. Think about it; after paying to get a Ram Air setup retrofitted to a regular 67/68 Firebird 400, it would have been a shame to not broadcast the fact you now had Ram Air. Logically, because the Firebird 400's already had holes in the hood for the 400 emblems, a replacment emblem would make perfect sense. It was either that, or have the dealer fill the holes, repaint the hood, and use Ram Air decals. Obviously, not cost effective.

All theories here....but I'd love to know the true story.....

[RAII 4-speed]

Quote............"ps on a related aside..the hpp car that had these emblems was a 68 RA I nightshade 4speed coupe...not a ram air II ca...plus (again this is in the herersay column but im just passing on what i heard about 4 years ago)...a parts dealer in massechussets years after that article told me HE produced those ram air emblems in the late 70s-80s...again HIS words not mine...just mentioning this since 'an all theory' request was put out there..take all this for what its worth...."

Yes that car in HPP is or should be an RAI, the emblems were added and they are stuck on by double sided tape. They are not originals they were made by someone in North carolina who actually carved them out of wood then had them cast.

The car here in question should not be used as an example.

[Cammer-6]

If its a factory part it should have a part# or casting # and be listed in the parts catalog.
I havent seen either regarding these emblems.
Kinda like the red center lug nuts

[Steve Hoog]

Mike those emblems always cause a stir.

[MikeNoun]

Originally Posted by ramair2

one poblem with this theory....if true why didnt ram air iv 1969 firebirds have ram air emblems on the hood? its been confirmed multiple times that 69 RA IV birds had 'ram air iv' decals (not emblems). to me THAT is insane and cost ineffective.

Just a theory, but since the 69 Ram Air cars, whether an HO or a RAIV, had some innerstructure hood bracing cut out, they were special hoods for Ram Air cars only. This also explains why those hoods never had punched holes for emblems, and they used "Ram Air" or "Ram Air IV" decals.

The 67/68 Ram Air Birds did not have a special hood, they were all punched for the 400 emblems, hence the "Ram Air" emblems would have made sense.

But if a guy claims he actually made them back then, I would love to see some proof. If these were just regular aftermarket emblems, probably $5 a pair, it's amazing that someone paid over $600 for them on E-Bay. I was always skeptical that these emblems were ever produced by Pontiac. I was just looking for actual proof that they were aftermarket.

By the way, here's the link to that 68 Ram Air Firebird. Sorry, I thought it was a RAII. Odd seeing the underhood insulation with Ram Air.

http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...am_air_system/

[RAII 4-speed]

Quote....."By the way, here's the link to that 68 Ram Air Firebird. Sorry, I thought it was a RAII. Odd seeing the underhood insulation with Ram Air."......That underhood insulation was added and should not be there, Again that car should not be used for examples...Also, it has both the 400 emblems and the Ram air emblems on it and they were added by the guy who restored it many years ago and they were made by someone and never produced by GM in fact the guy who cast them added a fake part # to the back of them and ripped people off on E-bay many years ago.

http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...am_air_system/

[Steve Hoog]

Excuse me for just a second and forgive me if my memory is off track, but weren't they in a GM box and some one on CP found an obscure MPC listing for the emblems?