[Dragncar]

Wilcox and his billet RAV heads are another to consider. They did rip the mains out of a iron IA2. estimated 3500HP and the engine did not run long enough to tune for max power. What will the new engine make with the 500cfm RAV heads and the LSM billet block ? 3 fast will have a monster when he is done.
Justin is doing what he is without even being near the top in "standard" type Pontiac heads. Non wide port heads that go 350cfm. Wilcox got 374cfm out of non WP E heads and I am sure he could ge 400+ out of WPs. What about the tall High Port heads KRE has. They should go 450-500cfm ported.
My point is Justin is doing his thing on his own dime with parts that are not even near the top of the heap in Pontiac equipment. With Warps,DCI RAVs, Wilcox RAV, Rays heads or even the newest Tigers he would make more power.
If someone wanted to shorten the deck, cross bolt the mains, better oiling and move the bores out while still keeping the outside dimensions the same I would call it a Pontiac.
Keep doing your thing Justin we are all proud of you.

[BruceWilkie]

Dragncar it simply doesnt matter what or whos heads are on the Pontiac bore space motor. Ultimately bore size dictates maximum valve size which dictates maximum flow possible.
Throw in CI limit, Turbo size limit, and then top off with NHRA set boost limit he simply can not put the same mass flow through his engine as they can. Boost is a measure of restriction to flow! If limit is set to say 40 psi the other guys with much higher flowing motors will be moving more mass flow than Justin at same 40 psi.

[GTOGEORGE]

42 lbs of boost is 42 lbs of boost no matter what size engine.....seriously!


GTO George

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

42 lbs of boost is 42 lbs of boost no matter what size engine.....seriously!


GTO George

Not with turbo's George. Not with your roots either. Drop 70 ci, use some some smaller heads on your car and limit pulley size and see where that gets you at your max boost.

[Jim Zeek]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Wilcox and his billet RAV heads are another to consider. They did rip the mains out of a iron IA2. estimated 3500HP and the engine did not run long enough to tune for max power.

I think there were other reasons for them ripping the mains out of it.

[Tom Vaught]

Don't waste your time Bruce, it will not sink in.

George did a great job at Norwalk with his Quick 16 Pontiac Race Win, for sure but being a good driver does not mean that you know squat about engine theory. George knows driving and writing a check. I tried for 15 years and it went in one ear and out the other (as far as the boost deal goes) with him. Maybe you will be able to explain some of the stuff to him. I quit trying.

Tom V.

[Elarson]

BTW: Justin says he's only allowed 37 psi of boost.

So a simple analogy....assume your municipal water supply is limited to 37 psi. Compare the amount of water from your garden hose vs. the water from a fire hose connected to a hydrant...both at the same 37 psi source pressure.

In much the same way, a 500 cfm head at 37 psi passes more air and fuel than a 400 cfm head at 37 psi.

Same thing happens with nitrous. You can't just gain unlimited power with bigger jets. Heads choke and the only way to make more power is a better flowing intake path.

Eric

[GTOGEORGE]

42 lbs of boost is 42 lbs of boost NOW because of bigger or smaller engine or less flowing heads the hp gained from boost will be different but I figured you guys knew that. Next time I will spell it out......duh!
That's why he needs to dump the 350 e-heads and small cubed engin for a night trending higher flowing head.
Tom a snot knowing anything about an engine my engine runs like a Swiss watch and is stays together will other engines running the engines don't.

GTO George

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

42 lbs of boost is 42 lbs of boost NOW because of bigger or smaller engine or less flowing heads the hp gained from boost will be different but I figured you guys knew that. Next time I will spell it out......duh!
That's why he needs to dump the 350 e-heads and small cubed engin for a night trending higher flowing head.
Tom a snot knowing anything about an engine my engine runs like a Swiss watch and is stays together will other engines running the engines don't.

GTO George

I pay you compliments all week for your win in the quick 16, and this is the way you treat a compliment? You are an IDIOT George.

Tom V.

[69Goat1]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Here is what makes this tough.
http://www.nhra.com/UserFiles/file/T...2010-26-15.pdf





Other rules limit cubic(526 iirc) inch AND bore space(4.9"iirc).

Boost PSI is a measure of restriction to flow. Ultimately it comes down to valve size as being one of the major factor in flow.

The engine capable of greater flow will be moving more mass air per pound of PSI boost.

The turbo size rules allow a bit of "cheating" but everyone will try to take max advantage with custom turbo's.

With those rules Justins motor comes up short on power compared to the other guys.

Justin having less power MIGHT help IF he can fully use what he's got START to FINISH and the competition cant use all they have for a full pass. He HAS to get far enough ahead he cant get run over at the stripe.

Other rules stipulate minimum weight. 2650 lbs for turbo cars. 2650/526 vs 2650/482 or 5.038 vs 5.497 lbs per ci a huge disadvantage given the limitations the turbo size and his valve size create.

I'm rooting for Justin regardless but the outcome will show we need stretched blocks and the heads to accomodate them to be truly competitive regardless how talented we(collectively) are.

Not limited to 526 ci...

Check this list out...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BruceWilkie]

The turbo class is!

Nitrous cars have different ci, NA is different ci, roots is different, centrifugal is different... I believe screw type as well. Don't have a direct link from my phone but Google the rules for NHRA promod

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

I pay you compliments all week for your win in the quick 16, and this is the way you treat a compliment? You are an IDIOT George.

Tom V.

Tom,
Shut up! LMAO!


GTO George

[Stan Weiss]

GTOGeorge,

I know we have been down this road before.

So 42 psi boost is 42 psi boost.

Can you please explain.

Why pressure ratio can be different with 42 psi boost?

Why density ratio can be different with 42 psi boost and the same pressure ratio?

Sometimes it is just not as simple as is seems. Did you ever find a blower efficiency map?

Stan

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by 69Goat1

Not limited to 526 ci...

Check this list out...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do not know how up to date this is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Modified

Stan

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

The turbo class is!

Nitrous cars have different ci, NA is different ci, roots is different, centrifugal is different... I believe screw type as well. Don't have a direct link from my phone but Google the rules for NHRA promod

I forgot to mention they run at different minimum weight depending on NA or PA choices.

[J.C.you]

what tires was Justin running on the 4.03 pass? Different from the pro mod tire rules?....

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

GTOGeorge,

I know we have been down this road before.

So 42 psi boost is 42 psi boost.

Can you please explain.

Why pressure ratio can be different with 42 psi boost?

Why density ratio can be different with 42 psi boost and the same pressure ratio?

Sometimes it is just not as simple as is seems. Did you ever find a blower efficiency map?

Stan

Stan,
I don't have time to play, if you're that bored go over to the PZ board and talk with Gach.......I'm sure you guys can talk about how Justin is going to tear them up in Pro Mod! LOL!



GTO George

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by GTOGEORGE

Stan,
I don't have time to play, if you're that bored go over to the PZ board and talk with Gach.......I'm sure you guys can talk about how Justin is going to tear them up in Pro Mod! LOL!



GTO George

GTO George,
What a cop out. You will make how many posts today but none will have any technical data.

I am not a betting person, but if I was my money would be on he does not qualify. For me the only question is how close does he come.

Stan

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

GTO George,
What a cop out. You will make how many posts today but none will have any technical data.

I am not a betting person, but if I was my money would be on he does not qualify. For me the only question is how close does he come.

Stan

Stan. a pound of boost is a pound of boost no matter what the combo is or weather.......now the HP that is gained will be different BUT the wasn't the statement.
As for Justin he hasn't made a 1/4 pass (as far as I know) and 350 e heads ain't going to get it done. How high up will he qualify will be determined by how many cars break!


GTO George

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

GTO George,
What a cop out. You will make how many posts today but none will have any technical data. Stan

We may disagree on some subjects, Stan, but I have to say that I have read your TECHNICAL POSTS for years on your website and on other sites where you have posted.

At the end of the day you have helped a lot of people with their projects, something that George would not have a clue on how to do: Help someone else with a technical question or how to go faster. So I have to agree totally with you on this one.

Tom V.