[top452]

Looking Great Ed!!! When will the car be ready for the track??

[69FIREBIRD76MM]

What rear end this one gonna have? Your car 10+.

[RAIV-Z]

Originally Posted by 69FIREBIRD76MM

What rear end this one gonna have? Your car 10+.

3.89 gear 9.5 inch.

[67'7F6'Bird]

Check out this pair.

[RAIV-Z]

Engine is almost ready to comeback out to get finished up.

[johnta1]

NICE!

[Jack Gifford]

That's one SERIOUS machine!

[GTO Dan]

WOW...just WOW!

[LiL Jack]

That is bad azz!

[taff2]

Very nice, I like the symmetry of your pipework.

[twooldgoats]

Very nice!!!

Jim

[johnta1]

One thing I thought of looking at the last pic:

It may have been better to run the pipe from driver side header to passenger turbo and vice-versa?

It would eliminate the 90º bends going to turbos now.
(would have been slight bend possibly)

But since it's done, probably not that big of a deal.



Still looks awesome.

[RAIV-Z]

Originally Posted by johnta1

One thing I thought of looking at the last pic:

It may have been better to run the pipe from driver side header to passenger turbo and vice-versa?

It would eliminate the 90º bends going to turbos now.
(would have been slight bend possibly)

But since it's done, probably not that big of a deal.



Still looks awesome.

Considered that, but stacking the pipes takes up more room which will be needed for a radiator(s).

[Tom Vaught]

So where are the dry sump pump parts to scavenge the oil on the low mount turbos?

Or are you assuming some sort of a electric pump scavenge deal?

Tom V.

[RAIV-Z]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

So where are the dry sump pump parts to scavenge the oil on the low mount turbos?

Or are you assuming some sort of a electric pump scavenge deal?

Tom V.

No dry sump here, going with a wet sump with a titan pump.

The turbos are higher than they look in the previous picture. I am a bit concerned that the drain angle will not be sufficient though so I'm considering adding a turbowerx Exa-Pump. What are your thought on what’s needed for a proper oil scavenge setup?
On the feed side I am using a pressure regulator.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by RAIV-Z

[COLOR=black]The turbos are higher than they look in the previous picture. I am a bit concerned that the drain angle will not be sufficient though so I'm considering adding a turbowerx Exa-Pump. What are your thought on what’s needed for a proper oil scavenge setup? On the feed side I am using a pressure regulator.

1) OIL DRAIN NEEDS TO BE ABOVE THE OIL LEVEL AT ALL TIMES.
Typical oil drains are installed in Pontiac engine vehicles:
a) 1.0" down from the oil pan rail
b) 2.0" inches forward of the first oil pan bolt on the pan. (The timing cover bolts do not count).

2) The Oil Drain Angle should not be less than 30 degrees downward at all times. Use a carpenters level and a protractor. If the angle is too "FLAT" you need a scavenge pump. Hopefully one that will not fail.
No valleys in the oil line at all as "a valley" will trap oil and then the Turbo cannot "breathe"
and will push oil past the seals on the turbo shaft.

3) Drain length cannon exceed 18 inches in a downward horizontal direction unless steel line is used with a smooth inner surface. No Corrugated tube crap.

4) Drain lines should be 150% larger than the drain hole size coming out of the Turbocharger.

5) Minimum of -4 feed line with no restrictors or regulation devices that can stick and restrict oil to the turbos. A .120" oil restriction is allowed right at each turbo inlet fitting to help with high pressure oiling systems.

If you deviate from the above, you buy a very expensive Race Turbo.

Tom V.

[Tom Vaught]

A pair of these pumps would possibly do the job but are a bit expensive. $400.00 each.
(if you use just one and it fails at the minimum you kill one turbo. So you feed both turbo drains into a log mainfold and then suck the oil out using both pumps at the same time. Much better to just design the Turbo positions correctly in the first place.

http://turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pumps/.../Exa-Pump.html

12 VDC AND 24 VDC VERSIONS IN STOCK! INQUIRE ABOUT CUSTOM VOLTAGES AND FLOWS

• 24V version - Perfect for European, and Commercial/Heavy-equipment/Truck Markets.
• 350F (175C) Fluid Temperature
• 2-3GPM Scavenge Pump Rate depending on oil temperature/viscosity, 50+ PSI continuous as Pressure Pump
• Self-prime greater than three feet.
• Hardened Bronze Gear Pump Rotors
• 10,000 Hour Rated Dual Hybrid Ball Bearings
• 10,000 Hour Rated Over-sized Brushes
• Highest Rated Temperature (class H or higher) Insulated Copper Motor Windings
• Black Anodized Extruded Aluminum Bracket/Heatsink
• Nickel-plated Pump Head
• Stainless Steel Pump Head Fasteners
• 3/8" NPT Female Threaded Pump Head Ports
• Set of two 3/8” NPT -> AN Nickel-plated Adapters Included - Options are -6AN, -8AN, or -10AN Sizes - if size preference not specified at order time, -8AN supplied.
• High-Temperature Power Wiring
• Weatherproof Connectors
• Rubber-isolated Mounting Bracket
• Low-vibration, Quiet
• 6 lbs Total Weight, 3” Diameter Motor,- For the most weight/space-critical applications see our newly announced Exa-Pump® “Mini!”
• Reversible Pump Flow via Power Polarity Reversal
• Not designed for use as a fuel pump
• Warrant void if 350F (175C) rated temperature is exceeded.
• Rated voltage may be exceeded by up to 25%. Warranty void if applied voltage exceeds 25% of rated voltage as labeled.
• For 100% compatibility with 16-18V set-ups on race vehicles, choose the 24V Exa-Pump®
• Operating Current: 12 VDC version is <5A, 20A maximum. 24 VDC version is <2.5A, 10A maximum. Pump MUST be protected by circuit breaker or fuse - 12V pump 20A, 24V pump 10A. A fuse or circuit breaker will protect the pump from permanent damage in case of rotor-lock from ingesting foreign debris. When the temperature of the oil is very low, the oil’s viscosity is much greater, and the pump will consume more current until the oil warms up. The fuse or circuit breaker current value takes into account the additional current needed for pumping oil at low temperatures. As a pressure-pump, the pumps are rated min. 50PSI. Exceeding any of these ratings will void warranty. (50-75PSI operation range is possible, but not guaranteed or warranted).
• Two-year Warranty - warranty void if pump is modified, or current ratings exceeded. Warranty only for genuine TurboWerx products purchased from TurboWerx or authorized resellers. No user-serviceable parts within the pump, warranty void if pump is opened. Do not remove or replace ANY fasteners. Warranty and terms of sales.

If you try to cheat, pumps are cheap vs $$$$ Race Turbos from Harry at Precision.
(Unless they are given to you as you are a SO star.)

Tom V.

ps You never put the turbo oil in below the oil level as the Drain oil has lots of bubbles that need to burst or they block the drain passages (reason for the large oil line drain hose diameters too. Bubbles break as they can't stretch tthat far). If it is below the oil level the bubbles act as a cork and stop all oil draining from the turbo. Drain must be at least 1" above the running oil level at all times.

[JSPONT]

My Porsche with low mount twins, I had both turbos sending into a 1.5 quart catch can, each side had a fitting up high, I had 1 pump that pulled from the bottom of the can. I never had an issue, and drove that car a bunch.

[Tom Vaught]

Porsche Cayenne had a similar deal with two catch cans (one under each turbo) in production. They used a gear pump at the front of the engine (where our timing cover would be) to scavenge each catch can and then returned the oil to the timing cover/oil pan. All mechanical parts, no electric pumps. Porsche did that deal for a reason.

The catch cans also had a vent line to the valve covers. you do not want to create a suction on the turbo, just a suction on the catch can to remove the drained oil.

Tom V.

[RAIV-Z]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

1) OIL DRAIN NEEDS TO BE ABOVE THE OIL LEVEL AT ALL TIMES.
Typical oil drains are installed in Pontiac engine vehicles:
a) 1.0" down from the oil pan rail
b) 2.0" inches forward of the first oil pan bolt on the pan. (The timing cover bolts do not count).

2) The Oil Drain Angle should not be less than 30 degrees downward at all times. Use a carpenters level and a protractor. If the angle is too "FLAT" you need a scavenge pump. Hopefully one that will not fail.
No valleys in the oil line at all as "a valley" will trap oil and then the Turbo cannot "breathe"
and will push oil past the seals on the turbo shaft.

3) Drain length cannon exceed 18 inches in a downward horizontal direction unless steel line is used with a smooth inner surface. No Corrugated tube crap.

4) Drain lines should be 150% larger than the drain hole size coming out of the Turbocharger.

5) Minimum of -4 feed line with no restrictors or regulation devices that can stick and restrict oil to the turbos. A .120" oil restriction is allowed right at each turbo inlet fitting to help with high pressure oiling systems.

If you deviate from the above, you buy a very expensive Race Turbo.

Tom V.

Hey Tom, great info. As always the devil is in the details.
1) OIL DRAIN NEEDS TO BE ABOVE THE OIL LEVEL AT ALL TIMES.

• Right. Tough part is to estimate how high the oil level at the front of the pan will be when you deploy the chutes and start braking.

Typical oil drains are installed in Pontiac engine vehicles:
a) 1.0" down from the oil pan rail

• Should I assume this measurement is with a stock style pan?

b) 2.0" inches forward of the first oil pan bolt on the pan. (The timing cover bolts do not count).

• Is this also assuming a stock style pan? The Moroso 2 Piece pan will have the oil level ~5.7 inches below the oil pan rail.

2) The Oil Drain Angle should not be less than 30 degrees downward at all times. Use a carpenter’s level and a protractor. If the angle is too "FLAT" you need a scavenge pump. Hopefully one that will not fail. No valleys in the oil line at all as "a valley" will trap oil and then the Turbo cannot "breathe" and will push oil past the seals on the turbo shaft.

• Got it, mocking up the lines this week.

3) Drain length cannon exceed 18 inches in a downward horizontal direction unless steel line is used with a smooth inner surface. No Corrugated tube crap.

• I believe we’re ok on the overall length, is there a recommended minimum downward angle?

4) Drain lines should be 150% larger than the drain hole size coming out of the Turbocharger.

• Planning on using ¾ lines on each turbo.

5) Minimum of -4 feed line with no restrictors or regulation devices that can stick and restrict oil to the turbos. A .120" oil restriction is allowed right at each turbo inlet fitting to help with high pressure oiling systems.

• Sent a note to Turbonetics asking about oil pressure recommendations/limits for their “ceramic ball bearing” turbos. No response. Also unable to find any related information on their site either.

Thanks
Ed