[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by slowbird

380 isnt close to max, sorry

... without moving valves, it's pretty close ...

[Daniel Barton]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... without moving valves, it's pretty close ...

Not true...

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by slowbird

But comparing a RAIV copy head to a raised runner canted valve head isn't silly even if it is ported with shaft rockers. I do realize that the e-head groud is very vocal but using them for your bench make is setting the bar pretty low, imo.

... a RA-IV copy ?? Really ?? ... what does a RA-IV flow unported ?? ... no where near 300cfm, it is an inline wedge design, plain and simple ...

... and the E-Head in my opinion is the most popular aftermarket head being used by Pontiac enthusiasts, so to use it as a guage or starting point of comparison, from a business perspective is a very smart thing to do, regardless of its design origin, its popularity is what will bring it under comparison to any new aftermarket cylinder head for the Pontiac ...

... the E-Head is an aftermarket head for a Pontiac that has no issue running on a stock block combination, and so is the CV-1, the E-Head also has no problem running rocker arm valvetrain, and so does the CV-1, the E-Head in many applications can fit under a stock hood, and so can the CV-1, the E-Head is one of the most affordable cylinder heads on the market, and so is the CV-1, the E-Head can use round port style headers, and so can the CV-1, this is what makes them comparable, plain and simple ...

... the key difference, is in both "Unported" and "CNC WP" form (per Dick Fulton's testing), the "UnPorted" CV-1 makes more power, plain and simple, and for less money in the (WP vs CV-1) testing ...

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by Daniel Barton

Not true...

... lol, hello Dan ...

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... a RA-IV copy ?? Really ?? ... what does a RA-IV flow unported ?? ... no where near 300cfm, it is an inline wedge design, plain and simple ...

... and the E-Head in my opinion is the most popular aftermarket head being used by Pontiac enthusiasts, so to use it as a guage or starting point of comparison, from a business perspective is a very smart thing to do, regardless of its design origin, its popularity is what will bring it under comparison to any new aftermarket cylinder head for the Pontiac ...

... the E-Head is an aftermarket head for a Pontiac that has no issue running on a stock block combination, and so is the CV-1, the E-Head also has no problem running rocker arm valvetrain, and so does the CV-1, the E-Head in many applications can fit under a stock hood, and so can the CV-1, the E-Head is one of the most affordable cylinder heads on the market, and so is the CV-1, the E-Head can use round port style headers, and so can the CV-1, this is what makes them comparable, plain and simple ...

... the key difference, is in both "Unported" and "CNC WP" form (per Dick Fulton's testing), the "UnPorted" CV-1 makes more power, plain and simple, and for less money in the (WP vs CV-1) testing ...

Not here to argue, like I posted before this was a good test and it proves the CV-1 can do better than an off the shelf wide port. Again
kudos to Dick for taking the time to do this testing.

[Ron H]

The pistons must have been modified for the CV-1 heads to fit? Or was it because the pistons were .100 in the hole they did not need to be cut?

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by Ron H

The pistons must have been modified for the CV-1 heads to fit? Or was it because the pistons were .100 in the hole they did not need to be cut?

... they were fly cut for CV-1 reliefs by Roland, and also had E-Head reliefs as well, and were hand prepped by me for Dick's testing ...

[Ron H]

Just curious, what does the intake used flow as cast? I am assuming it needs work to keep up with the heads since it had work done to it more than just a port match.

What is the cost to port it like was done for this test?

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by Ron H

Good to see the cv-1 numbers on this size short block.

Were the heads the first casting?

Which intake was used?

Thanks for doing this test. Will you do a swap test in the car at the track as well?

... not attacking you here Ron, but I have been asked more than once, the question you asked in this post ...

.. to date, there has only been the original CV-1 castings being used in any and all testing up to today, there have been no "ReTool" CV-1 castings produced as of yet, so the heads are still based on Roland's original CV-1 port design ...

[Ron H]

I thought so but wasn't certain as you guys ahd said there is retool castings in the works awhile back. And there is also the porters heads.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by WARPed

Agreed, for about $3800-$4000 CV-1s setup vs E wide ports $3500 + $900 - victor + shaft system well over $1000 and the difference in cost of offset lifters....so when it is time to step up your game plan I would give the CV-1's a serious consideration.

as a starting point comparison i would not even consider the ported e head. tigers or high ports or possibly cv1 is the consideration. warp 6

[69FIREBIRD76MM]

What price and parts are need it to complete a CV-1 top end for a pontiac 474 CID
HEADS AS CAST$
INTAKE FOR DOMINATOR CARB$
PUSHRODS?
WATER CROSS OVER?
VALVE COVERS?
thanks

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by 69FIREBIRD76MM

What price and parts are need it to complete a CV-1 top end for a pontiac 474 CID
HEADS AS CAST$
INTAKE FOR DOMINATOR CARB$
PUSHRODS?
WATER CROSS OVER?
VALVE COVERS?
thanks

pistons
rocker arms

[WARPed]

HEADS AS CAST: $3200.00*
INTAKE FOR DOMINATOR CARB: $425.00
PUSHRODS?: same price just different lengths
WATER CROSS OVER?: use the same
VALVE COVERS?: $225.00
thanks
pistons: fly cut for intake valve only
rocker arms: same as BBC -$300.00ish
* The new re-tool heads will be a bit more than the original casting at $3000.00, they will flow around 400cfm as cast. Below is a link to the new info:

http://www.cv-1channel.com/forums/sh...t-is-completed-!!!!

[Ron H]

* The new re-tool heads will be a bit more than the origanel casting at $30000.00, they will fllow arounfd 400cfm as cast. Below is a link to the new info:

Holy crap!

I think he meant 3 grand.

[hp 400 dave]

What is the point of comparing one modified part against another. The cv had a comp valve job and a blend, and the wp much more. All wide ports are clearly not the same. Some people run fast with them and others, well not so fast. Maybe these are the not so variety. A wp valve is pretty close to the bore on a stock block, the canted valve has an advantage in this case. Both are within 4% hp of each other. Run both n/a at the track and see if the cv can beat THESE wp's there too. The key is THESE wp's. When comparing modified parts it's all about the skill of the guy doing the mods. At least that's how I see it.

[Badbird69]

Ron, the CV-1 intake gaskets matched the heads perfectly, but the ports in the intake manifold were much much smaller. Jim said up front that we would have to port the intake to match. The intake manifold port work was $300.

The wideport E heads used in this test flowed 380+ cfm. A max effort E head will flow in excess of 410 cfm.

Truth be told, we are testing geeks - and really enjoyed this whole project.

I gotta say, when the E heads made 781 hp, we thought it was "game over" for the CV-1's. But...........they proved otherwise.

I guess we're myth busters now, lol.

Dick Fulton

[slowbird]

So in excess of 410cfm is max, interesting. I guess 30+ cfm is considered "pretty close" now?

[Ron H]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

Ron, the CV-1 intake gaskets matched the heads perfectly, but the ports in the intake manifold were much much smaller. Jim said up front that we would have to port the intake to match. The intake manifold port work was $300.

The wideport E heads used in this test flowed 380+ cfm. A max effort E head will flow in excess of 410 cfm.

Truth be told, we are testing geeks - and really enjoyed this whole project.

I gotta say, when the E heads made 781 hp, we thought it was "game over" for the CV-1's. But...........they proved otherwise.

I guess we're myth busters now, lol.

Dick Fulton

Thanks for the info Dick. It has been an eye opener. Once the re tool heads and intake come out it stands to reason that there is more to be had. I guess the question is do you chance this kinda power on a stock block since you have already taken it to the edge.

Well done.

[Badbird69]

I just finished reading Gach's diatribe concerning our CV-1 versus Wideport E testing. I'm posting my response here, as I doubt if he would print it over there.

It appears that Gach has a very large chip on his shoulder concerning CV-1 heads. I understand that there have been a number of exaggerated and unsubstantiated claims over the last few years concerning the performance capabilities of the CV-1's. I also understand that during his "honeymoon period" with the CV-1's a lot of those claims came directly from him. Now that he sold them (after getting them for free), they are crap.

For starters, Gach continually splits hairs on the definition of "as cast". Around here, every head that comes through the door gets disassembled, valves and seats touched up, bowls lightly blended, seat run-out checked, valve springs tested and checked for installed height and new valve seals installed. But unless someone has taken a grinder to the ports, they are still considered "as cast". That is not misleading unless you choose to be mislead. There is always an agenda when someone purposefully misunderstands.

Then he throws up a bunch of questions that he thinks we should have answered, such as: Port volume, cross sectional area, flow numbers at every lift point, intake plenum area, air speed, low lift numbers and fuel curves. The assertion is made that all of these things affect compression. Clearly, Gach is wildly pulling questions out of some bodily orifice to try to cloud the results of our testing.

The icing on the cake was the implication that my credibility and the credibility of our testing was in question because I received a free induction system from Roland Racing, with little investment on my part. I think that was a new low - even for Gach.

For the record, Roland Racing still owns the heads, intake and valve covers. If I choose to keep them, I will pay for them. If I choose not to keep them, I will return them. It's called a gentleman's agreement or contract.

If you add up all the parts, machine work and dyno time, I have invested over $4000 of my own money and countless hours of my time to make this happen. I am not a hired cheerleader for CV-1's. We did and independent test, not knowing what the outcome would be. Maybe Gach would like to belly up for his own independent test to get some "real" numbers.

Dick Fulton