[Formulabruce]

This thread should be renamed... "Stock appearing"

[Formulajones]

Guess Bruce is another non believer

That's okay, run into many guys like this over the years. It's a common response from people that don't fully understand what's going on here, or from people that just haven't tried it themselves. If you can't beat em', you may as well join the fun Gotta respect guys that aren't afraid to do what these cars were born to do, and get out here and ring these expensive cars (not to mention expensive parts and pieces)

Since we are on the subject, here is Mahoney's ram air II bird that's one of the quicker pontiacs I'm aware of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJjya...yer_detailpage

[Judge273]

The PSMCDR is a event that is only in Michigan as I understand. The intent is not to distort or use tricks, but to have a platform of unity and drag race for "no awards".

[Formulajones]

Correct, however there is another entity running called the F.A.S.T. series that has branched off from this several years ago, and they run a class called "Factory Stock" which is basically the same thing as the Pure Stock racing running assentially the same rules and tech.
However F.A.S.T. has several races throughout the year at different venues, so it's easier to plan and attend, and it's always fun to see the so called "ringer" cars as some of you guys are calling it, those would be the F.A.S.T. cars or "Factory Appearing Stock Tire" cars that Bruce is referring to.

For more info on this group check here... http://www.fastraces.org Their event schedule is likely to have something nearby most of you anywhere in the midwest.

Matter of fact you'll see another one of Mahoney's ram air birds on the front page, this one obviously setup to run the F.A.S.T. series.

[transam1972]

I did not factor in how rare the RA IV is..a lot more 455 H.O.s,mine being one of them...as I stare at the engine,tell me what I should do..58k on the car,bought from the original female owner in 85...engine swap so good,I never knew it has a complete SR motor,heads and carb. from 73...that alone may drop the motor miles to 48k..car has always been garage kept...before I go racing do you advise pulling a head and valley cover to really inspect this engine?...I hope to hook up with my brother who does this...I just painted my engine OER blue,thats my engine work...it seems the 455 H.O. was just an all around highpoint of the roundports...but no one can argue that to own a Ram Air IV or a 455 S.D. is not a good thing...to see these engines still being raced is very cool

[Formulajones]

Are you saying you want to hit the pure stock or factory stock drags at some point? Probably alot of prep that could be done but I would personally recommend keeping it simple and getting your feet wet so to speak. Get a feel for it and meet some people, most are all friendly and willing to share help and tips. I guarantee once you have a taste of it you'll be hooked and looking for more.

Myself I just enjoy the sounds and smells of these old cars racing, and it's all heads up racing like it used to be, none of that silly index and handicap stuff. You don't have to be the fastest guy, after qualifying they'll pair you with a similar running car and go heads up 2 out of 3. So some of the matches can appear strange at first, but real eye openers when the light turns green. Lots of fun and sure beats sitting around in a lawn chair dusting the car off, that's something I got tired of doing a long time ago. Speaking of which any one of these cars would win and/or stand proud at any local show, some really nice stuff comes out for racing.

[tjtjwdad]

Originally Posted by 71HOT/A

What if you built what Pontiac probably would have if not for the new regulations. Take one 455 HO, raise the compression to about 10 to 1, add the IV cam and 1.65 rockers. Some SD rods to make it stay together and team this up with an m22 and 3.73 rear. Guess what, you would have a car that will run on today's gas, is more driver friendly than the IV and considerably faster.

I would consider strenghting the bottom end; connecting rods, crankshaft, pistons, cross bolt man bearing caps to take advantage of upper RPM range of the 041 camshaft and 1.65 rocker arms.

Since you're adding the 1.65 rocker and the RAIV camshaft I would strongly consider the valve train components as well; springs, push-rods, push-rod guides and lifters. Also, IIRC the RAIV had larger rocker arm studs but I'm not sure on that one. Just as well to get the whole package while you're doing the project.

[transam1972]

in 1981 I was in a Trans Am/Formula Firebird club..I got to run my 76 455 3xs in the 1/4 mile at Englishtown..one of the highs in my life that same year was doing a parade lap at Dover Downs..incredibly banked...after the lap you were allowed to go full throttle..I know I was pushing 100 mph..my friends 71 bue T/A lost a trim ring and it looked surreal as it moved across the track and did not hit any cars...I wonder if this is still allowed..in fact I still have my day at the races photos

[4birds]

Wow. This has gotten way off the original topic of a Ram Air IV engine versus a 71-72 455HO. Many of us (OK some of us lucky bastards) have driven both of these cars with these engines in close to original GM "born with equipment". This means no headers, bigger cams, rear gears, slicks, super tuning, etc. Anyone can modifiy and tweak things to perform better. Thats not the question here.The point is both of these engines were top performers and were VERY CLOSE competitors to each other as GM designed and build them back in their time. Today NONE of them are stock as they were back then. That said, I am glad there are so many of them still in existance today to still have fun and enjoy these fantastic machines! They bring people together for spirited chats!

[2manyT/A'S]

Hmmmmm,didn't there used to be a "poll" feature on the forums....that's what we need...

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by 4birds

Wow. This has gotten way off the original topic of a Ram Air IV engine versus a 71-72 455HO. Many of us (OK some of us lucky bastards) have driven both of these cars with these engines in close to original GM "born with equipment". This means no headers, bigger cams, rear gears, slicks, super tuning, etc. Anyone can modifiy and tweak things to perform better. Thats not the question here.The point is both of these engines were top performers and were VERY CLOSE competitors to each other as GM designed and build them back in their time. Today NONE of them are stock as they were back then. That said, I am glad there are so many of them still in existence today to still have fun and enjoy these fantastic machines! They bring people together for spirited chats!

Well said, I will add... Trans Am was NOT built from the factory as a DRAG race car... but thats where the conversation always goes..
Original dyno reports tell the story on HP and torque at what RPM...

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by transam1972

does anyone on the forum own a 1970 T/A Ram Air IV?...and it being high compression were they "harrier" than the 1971 and 1972 455 H.O.s?

THIS above is the OP...
A smaller cube engine with a big cam will ALWAYS be "harrier" than a big cam in a 455...
Yes I drove em both, with Sunoco 260 .. ROAD race cars, NOt dragsters......

[transam1972]

does not the 455 H.O. have,out of the crate more potential and a better running engine than the RA IV?

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by transam1972

does not the 455 H.O. have,out of the crate more potential and a better running engine than the RA IV?

No, to answer the "more potential", not with stock internals & stock flowing heads.

[transam1972]

so stock to stock, a RA IV will beat a 455 H.O.

[4birds]

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on what color it is.......

[brians]

Personally got to go with the RAIV as purchased, but believe the 455HO has more potential as a street engine.

Most of my TA’s are gone now, but here is what the early ones ran:

1972 – All original but was an auto with a 3.08 gear. Best was a 14.52 @95

1973 – Original with 30K miles - base 455 4sp with 3.42. Best was a 14.40 @ 97
Changed the M21 to a M20, put in a 744 cam. True duels with manifolds.
Best 13.89 @ 102

(Switched to 400 4X heads and put the 72 HO intake and carb on it. Best 13.20 @ 105)


1970 RAIV – Auto with 3.73. Never drove it all the years I had it (really stupid mistake)
Was in it before I bought it - Best was a 13.98 @ 102 and an ugly 60ft

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by 4birds

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on what color it is.......

LOL!

Glen, what many of us are saying is the RAIV has a higher potential in race engine form.
Bone stock for bone stock with the lousy stock '70-72 F-body rear exhaust system, both the '70 RAIV T/A & similar equipped '71 HO T/A were near dead heat.

[transam1972]

I know, tell me though Ol Pinion,..should I pull a head and check the piston for wear on my engine?...I do want to do everything right for this motor

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by transam1972

so stock to stock, a RA IV will beat a 455 H.O.

Beat it doing what??
1/4 mile, maybe..
TEXAS mile, NO WAY..
can this ever end??