[The Boss]

Don't forget about diminished value David. A no accident car is worth more than one which has had an accident and been repaired. It's no different with the older cars than it was when you bought your Tundras used.

[David Jones]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Let the body shop work with Hagerty on the errors on the estimate. I'm sure that this will be resolved to your satisfaction.

That is the plan Champ.

This morning, I'm going to send a note to my Michigan Hagerty rep lightly recapping my visit to both the Hueytown shop, (a couple of weeks ago) recommended by the local adjuster http://www.goolsbycustoms.com/ (which, if they took it...and they sounded doubtful.....would have been stupid money) and yesterdays visit. Reality seems to be lacking in the local adjusters thought process. On one hand he recommends the most expensive, upper tier, custom shop anywhere around these parts and on the other hand he turns in an estimate that seems a bit low budget.

[bird72]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Don't forget about diminished value David.

I have wondered about this point myself, Bossman. Wondered if they value and if so, how.... I know it has a value to me.... but what (???) I sought out a car and paid at the time top retail because it had original paint and never had been apart. All alignments and structural are like day one. Just making it look like it did would not make it the same car in the case of a big repair.

[MUSLCAH]

Originally Posted by 400 4spd.

I saw this scenario coming on December 10. Been through it several times and in the end I always got paid what the bill was. I've done repair claims for classic insurers ranging from $3500 to $54,000. Did I make buddies with the insurance people? Probably not. Did I do quality repairs and have satisfied customers? Yes.
Guys, do not assume that Hagerty or the other classic insurers have full time damage appraisers on staff to travel the world and will look at your car. Do not expect the representative who looks at your car to have knowledge of classic cars. Often they do not have a clue about parts sources. They are employed by independent appraisal companies, who in turn contract with the big names to take pictures and throw together an estimate. They are not "car guys". They file the estimate with a supervisor, who in turn sends it to Hagerty. During that process, the numbers will likely be trimmed before Hagerty gets it.
There really is so much about this process that most guys are not aware of. David's is the classic example of how it can go once the wheels start turning.

The burden for a correct repair lies with the shop it goes to, and Hagerty WILL pay for correct repairs, and at a higher rate than collision rate.

I could go much deeper, but I think that's enough. Again, wishing good luck to you David.

In your shop......do you get a higher hourly rate to work on Corvettes,BMW,Audi.......than you do a Ford Escape ,Honda Accord ...from the insurance co. ?? That don't happen around here.

[400 4spd.]

Originally Posted by MUSLCAH

In your shop......do you get a higher hourly rate to work on Corvettes,BMW,Audi.......than you do a Ford Escape ,Honda Accord ...from the insurance co. ?? That don't happen around here.

I'm not a collision shop. The only insurance work I will take is from a couple of collector insurers. They pay my shop rate, which is higher than collision shops.
Three years ago I was approached by an upper level manager with Hagerty out of the Michigan office. He wanted to know if I would be interested in being a part of a program they were one year into. It involved lining up qualifying shops in different parts of the country that would represent the company to handle claims, and do the repairs. Much like the collision industry "Direct Repair" system works, but geared for classic and exotic cars. I was told at that time they had seven shops nationwide on the system.
After going through the screening process and qualifying, I was sent a contract.
There were a few points that I was not comfortable with and in the end I declined to sign on. As it turned out, I still get an occasional call to fix one for them without all of the additional administrative headaches I would have had.

About hourly rates, they had a shop labor rate scale that varies in range from Standard rates, Classic rates and Exotic rates. Standard would apply to an average vehicle that a customer might have included with one of the other high-end cars on the policy.
For instance, I have a customer who owns 5 Ferrari's. If he damaged his SUV and wanted it fixed here, Hagerty would pay me a different hourly rate than they would on a Ferrari. So Hagerty does expect to pay more for repair services on collector cars. The problem is usually with the appraiser. An hour earlier he may have been across town appraising fire damage to a house or hail damage on a Hyundai.
I'm sure if the shop is willing to make a few calls directly to the Hagerty adjuster at the home office and supply some photos, they can iron things out.

[David Jones]

I just sent Hagerty a note with some concerns I have and explaining what the shop I talked with yesterday is doing. The shop is working up what they think the car needs and what they'd charge and they will contact both me and the local adjuster with that estimate early next week.
I also noted that the local adjuster had suggested using Goolsby's Customs, a VERY high end shop over in Hueytown. Think Chip Foose. Then I noted that the adjuster had plugged in $48 an hour labor on his estimate...a rate that wouldn't get my car off the rollback at a shop like Goolsby's.

[AdamIsAdam]

I should have said this earlier, but you should ALWAYS take your car to your body shop first, then arrange the insurance adjuster to inspect the car there so the shop and adjuster get to discuss before and during the process. Much easier to have the guys in the field work it out first before getting corporate involved.

In your case you didn't know a shop yet, I understand. So this is more for future info to those reading.

This is based on my experience and the advice given to me by my shop. Your results may vary.

[David Jones]

Thank you for your input Adam...and everyone that has weighed in so far.

Most everyone has an opinion or experience in these kinds of things and who knows when one of those shared nuggets is going to be useful to someone that reads this down the road. It's no doubt been good for me.

One thing I don't want is to have my car hanging out in the back lot of a body shop somewhere while the parties involved try to figure this out. I'd like to try to keep it in the basement, where it is now, until the shop is ready to work on it. Pipe dream maybe.........

[David Jones]

I just received a reply from my guy AJ at Hagerty.

He covered all of my questions and also said this when I told him my shop was putting together their estimate.....

"have your shop of choice send their full estimate to the appraiser Steve so he can get it uploaded to me for review and payment"

I suspect it won't be quite that simple but so far Hagerty themselves have been quick and easy to deal with.

[AdamIsAdam]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Don't forget about diminished value David. A no accident car is worth more than one which has had an accident and been repaired. It's no different with the older cars than it was when you bought your Tundras used.

This is an interesting issue. There's a delta between the original value and the final repaired value, which should be calculable by Hagerty and then paid to you. Ie, if your car is worth $50k now in original paint, but a repaired car is only worth $40k, I'd argue that a $10k check should be added to the repair bills. Or, I suppose you can sue for that in the event that there was another person at fault.

Of course, this is a snapshot value, meaning if your original car would have gone up 10% in 10 years but your repainted car only goes up 5%, they can only base claim on today's snapshot in time.

It's an interesting concept. I wonder if the fine print addresses this. It's common knowledge that a newer daily driver is expected to be repaired back to the pre-accident CONDITION but it can never be made accident free again.

As I think that through, it's probably unreasonable to ask the insurance company to insure us back in time, so to speak. It's the risk of driving.

Ok, I'm really babbling now, but one final thought: if the car was totaled they'd pay for the agreed upon value. So that all original paint car still started the policy life with an agreed upon value. That's their cap.

[njsteve]

The legal term is diminution of value. A never-hit car with all its original panels is worth X amount of money. Once it gets hit, even after repair it is now worth X minus Y in value.

This is a legitimate claim to inquire about with the insurance company. I don't know your car's history but if this is the case you definitely need to raise the issue with them.

I dropped Hagerty years ago after they kept raising my rates year after year with no claims. I have been with MK Insurance for almost ten years now. http://www.mkinsuranceagency.com/ Tamra Petro is the lady to talk to there. They even give a discount to car club members.

The real test of your coverage and the company is when you have a claim. I had a nick on the outer edge of the door on my Gramma's 75 Firebird several years ago. It happened when the door opened too fast and just barely hit the garage wall. We have owned this car since new. MK paid more than your Hagerty collision estimate to have the door nick repaired and they demanded that the 2/3 of the car be repainted to make sure it was blended properly (Lucerne Blue). I was amazed at how attentive they were. No questions asked/no hassles to the body shop. My body shop guy was equally amazed at their cooperation and attention to detail.

[W72-Bandit]

Very glad to hear of your claim experience with MK Steve. I switched from Hagerty to MK myself a couple of years ago for the same reason you did. But I've been concerned about how a claim may go....glad to hear you had no problems.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by njsteve

I dropped Hagerty years ago after they kept raising my rates year after year with no claims. I have been with MK Insurance for almost ten years now. http://www.mkinsuranceagency.com/ Tamra Petro is the lady to talk to there. They even give a discount to car club members.

I've had a member of another board mention MK before for their lower rates and expertise, and as a result I have checked with them, but they were far more expensive for me.

But as rates are different in every state (and even in different areas of a state), all I can surmise is that in higher rated states that MK is more competitive.

While living in the cornfields of MN and WI, Hagerty has always been the much better value. You're in New Jersey and the other fellow was in CA - both expensive car insurance areas.

Just as a frame of reference - my 14 Chevy and 14 Cadillac daily drivers only cost me about $525.00 every 6 months for 250/500/100 liability, UM/UIM and $500 ded comp and collision coverage which automatically includes rental reimbursement coverage.

And as a bonus - I just got a $555.00 rebate for being claim free on my auto and homeowner package...

[David Jones]

Some progress...possibly.
I cleaned carpet at my house late Friday afternoon and then found a message on my phone that Pleasant Grove Collision had their estimate ready. They were gone by the time I found the call.

Lets say Hagerty goes with the body shops estimate. What will the body shop likely require to get started? I have the initial check from Hagerty that covered what the local adjuster felt the repair was worth. I have not deposited it. Do shops want a "draw".
What should I expect...and what should I ask for?

[David Jones]

I have my body shops estimate in hand and have forwarded a copy to Hagerty.
The local adjuster had put his estimate at $3607.09. Pleasant Grove Collision has it at $6824.48.

Quite the gulf between those numbers.

We'll see what Hagerty says......

[The Champ]

David

In my experience with collision work, the body shop gets paid when the work is done.

I don't think you should have any trouble with Hagerty.

[400 4spd.]

Normally any additional is also sent to the policy holder.

[MUSLCAH]

Originally Posted by The Champ

David

In my experience with collision work, the body shop gets paid when the work is done.

I don't think you should have any trouble with Hagerty.

Allstate was at my shop this morning....and cut me a check on the spot...on the estimate they just wrote....haven't even taken it apart yet....

[AdamIsAdam]

body shop has your car. they don't need your money too. If you fail to pay they can hold your car and even put a mechanic's lean on it if necessary. They have all the power in that regard, so you don't need to pay them any money up front, especially for a routine job like this. Maybe on a $60k frame off that take 2 years they'll want some money along the way, but not for a $7k repair to a $25k+ car.

[MUSLCAH]

So is the car getting worked on ?....