[Mr Anonymous]

This EV vs ICE is a power density issue, pure and simple - and batteries just can't do it.

[dataway]

I want to invent a car that runs on internet arguments .... I'd be a bazillionaire ..

BTW .. synthetic oil, better than conventional or no ?

[242177P]

Originally Posted by dataway

BTW .. synthetic oil, better than conventional or no ?

That really depends on your cam's specs.

[misterp266]

Originally Posted by 242177P

That really depends on your cam's specs.

And whether you pre-fill your oil filter . . . . . no oil filters on EVs!

[242177P]

Originally Posted by misterp266

And whether you pre-fill your oil filter . . . . . no oil filters on EVs!

I can work with this. When it comes to problems, I'm an expert.
Let's see... Cabin air filter? K&N!! Am I good or what?

[Keith Seymore]

A little surprised to see my name mentioned in this thread.

By way of background - I drove a series of Chevy Volts and derivatives daily for a period of about 4 years during their development period (2008 - 2012).

You may already know they are not a "pure" electric, but a hybrid. Basically the power to the front wheels always comes from electricity, but you have an "on board gasoline generator" (conveniently located in the normal engine location) to keep the batteries topped off.

It worked well for me, as my commute was 31 miles one way and I could charge both at work and at home. This would allow me to go months without turning the gasoline engine on, unless I had to run errands or otherwise deviate from my commute.

Of course, since these were company provided vehicles I did not have to worry about ownership concerns like battery life, replacement cost, insurance and such, which might temper my enthusiasm.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by misterp266

Tom E made a battery that had a 100 mile range back in 1910. Guess we haven’t come very far huh?




BTW, Tom did not go to college, or high school for that matter…….I think the driver’s name is Zimnicky.

I love this bit of irony:

Henry Ford was very militant about his employees driving Ford vehicles, even firing workers if they were slow to make a purchase.

But - that rule (apparently) did not apply to Mrs Ford.

She drove a 1914 Detroit Electric, as did most fashionable women of the day.

https://www.thehenryford.org/collect...tifact/209957/

[242177P]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

I don't care if it's a steenking hybrid, that photo is great. Keith stood in the rain for us because he spotted something that just needed to happen.

[Elarson]

Doing some math to compare ICE vs. EV.

Fill your car with 20 gallons of gas in ~5 mins
=2.3 million BTU's in the fuel.
Assume a 40% efficient engine so you get 920,000 BTU of useable transportation energy.
20 gallons x $3.50 per gallon = $70

How long to get the same energy at an electric charging station?

920,000 BTU/3413 BTU's per kWh = 269 kWh
Assume EV is 90% efficient = 298 kWh's required to match 20 gallons of gas of useable transportation energy
298 kwh/480 volt fast charging station = 621 amp-hours
If charger pushes 200 amps, it will take 3.1 hours to charge to the same useable transportation energy as 20 gallons of gas.
Cost = 298 kWh x 15 cents = $44.80.

EV is cheaper but takes LOTS longer to "refill".

FWIW:
Eric

[scott70]

Originally Posted by Elarson

Doing some math to compare ICE vs. EV.

Fill your car with 20 gallons of gas in ~5 mins
=2.3 million BTU's in the fuel.
Assume a 40% efficient engine so you get 920,000 BTU of useable transportation energy.
20 gallons x $3.50 per gallon = $70

How long to get the same energy at an electric charging station?

920,000 BTU/3413 BTU's per kWh = 269 kWh
Assume EV is 90% efficient = 298 kWh's required to match 20 gallons of gas of useable transportation energy
298 kwh/480 volt fast charging station = 621 amp-hours
If charger pushes 200 amps, it will take 3.1 hours to charge to the same useable transportation energy as 20 gallons of gas.
Cost = 298 kWh x 15 cents = $44.80.

EV is cheaper but takes LOTS longer to "refill".

FWIW:
Eric

I'll gladly pay extra for the gas.

[jhein]

Other than the fact that they're being used for a political end, the worst thing about them from an end user point of view is that when your battery is toast, you're vehicle is worthless. What's going to be the value of a 5, 6 or 7 year old EV that's got little to no battery life left, and the battery costs more than the car, or you just can't get one at all?

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by jhein

Other than the fact that they're being used for a political end, the worst thing about them from an end user point of view is that when your battery is toast, you're vehicle is worthless. What's going to be the value of a 5, 6 or 7 year old EV that's got little to no battery life left, and the battery costs more than the car, or you just can't get one at all?

I can answer that question from the standpoint of a hybrid vehicle as they have been out much longer. I have replaced the HV battery in 3 Toyota Prius vehicles. 1 I bought from a junkyard no warranty, $400.00. 2. Bought from junkyard with 1 year warranty, $600.00. 3. Bought from NAPA. Re-manufactured with 3 year limited warranty. $1500.00. Recently had a Ford Escape Hybrid in nice condition offered to me for $425.00. It needed the hybrid battery. Used ones are around $2000.00. Kelly Blue Book had the vehicle in good condition for $2650.00. I passed. It went to Goodwill. Think of a 8-10 year old EV just like a gas powered vehicle that needs a complete engine replacement. About the same cost. Then it becomes the cost of a new engine, (battery), vs the value of the vehicle at that time. Some will be fixed, some scrapped.

[jhein]

I love the smell of gasoline in the morning... Smells like, victory.

[HoovDaddy]

I don't want to own a EV, maybe lease one for around town.

My Brother-In-Law traded-in his 2012 Mustang 5.0 for a new 2014 Focus Electric. He found out that insurance for EV's is more expensive than ICE vehicles. EV insurance costs 66% more than the Mustang for identical coverage and the registration cost in Michigan is higher for EV's.

In perfect weather (no A/C, no heat) the range is 75-100 miles, so this particular car is pretty useless IMO. The car currently has only 53k miles. A code came up recently indicating one of the batteries was running hot. We found a coolant leak under the car, requiring a new hose and a system flush. Making an appointment at the local Ford dealer required a 6 week wait, because it was an electric car. Lately he has found the charge plug isn't compatible with some of the newer chargers in parking lots or highways.

EV's are different animal.

[dataway]

I'd drive a hybrid ... that small gas engine makes me way more comfortable, and gives you a good source of power for heat/AC. But the cost savings would have to make it worthwhile or what's the point.

Wonder if there is a problem with old gas in a hybrid ... don't use the gas engine for a few months and things would start to get stale?

[Tarl]

I wouldn't mind getting this electric car

https://microlino-car.com/en/microlino

I am not the biggest fan of electric cars though, but I live in the city and my condo is in a old 1920's factory with a very tight and low parking space. A car like this wold be easy to get around and park. Of course no where to put a charging station and the battery fire threat in the garage below all the units are problems to be solved first.

[misterp266]

Doesn’t look like a death trap at all!
Boston drivers are the most courteous in the country, you should be safe. 👍

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Tarl

I wouldn't mind getting this electric car

https://microlino-car.com/en/microlino

That's pretty cool, a modern interpretation of the BMW Isetta. Their website says "Space for 2 adults and 3 beer crates."

[scott70]

A hybrid I could deal with,,,,,straight battery,,,,,,nope.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Tarl

I wouldn't mind getting this electric car

https://microlino-car.com/en/microlino

I am not the biggest fan of electric cars though, but I live in the city and my condo is in a old 1920's factory with a very tight and low parking space. A car like this wold be easy to get around and park. Of course no where to put a charging station and the battery fire threat in the garage below all the units are problems to be solved first.

Everything old is new again! Can we say electric BMW Isetta? I wouldn't want to be in it during that 55 car pile-up on the Ohio Turnpike last week! I honestly think electric and gasoline vehicles can live together just fine.