[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by tom s

We looked into a LS conversion for a 76 TA,with all needed to do they are not that cheap.Went with a 455 and a 200R.Tom

I looked at it hard at one time too, and came to the same conclusion. You will get more power, and cheaper, going the traditional Pontiac power route. So I did, and proved it.

To get comparable power from the LS costs money. And don't try to sell me 'you can grab a truck LS for $xxx and do it cheap'. Seen too many failures by those taking that route.


.

[HWYSTR455]

Many end up looking like this:

.

[HWYSTR455]

Show me a turn-key performance LS engine 'kit' that includes a harness and ECU, then add all the swap parts needed too, and add it up. Even doing most of it yourself, you will quickly see it adds up to way more.

A junkyard engine is just that, junk, if you want a professional performance engine/combo.


.

[hurryinhoosier62]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I looked at it hard at one time too, and came to the same conclusion. You will get more power, and cheaper, going the traditional Pontiac power route. So I did, and proved it.

To get comparable power from the LS costs money. And don't try to sell me 'you can grab a truck LS for $xxx and do it cheap'. Seen too many failures by those taking that route.


.

Most LS truck engines found it salvage yards are in salvage yards due to mileage or other damage rending the host vehicle uneconomical to return to service. Let me give an example: my ‘03 Silverado has the 4.3 Vortec in it. Just to procure a serviceable 4.8/5.3 iron block core and all of the associated mounts and accessories is more expensive than building a 4.3 Vortec with an 8 psi turbo system on it. Think about this: ‘03 Silverados came from the factory with 4.8/5.3 LS engines installed in them. I imagine the costs associated with replacing a Pontiac V-8 with a LS would be comparable to replacing a 4.3 Vortec( Gen 1 SBC based) with an LS.

[tom s]

If you do most of the work yourself could be cheapers but this was a complete restomod type project.Tom

[PAUL K]

Fastest way to slow down a Pontiac is to put an LS in it.

[Gach]

LS power baby !!

[HWYSTR455]

MAST is kind of a baseline of reliable performance LS 'crate' power, at least a starting point for shopping.

https://www.mastmotorsports.com/coll.../crate-engines

Pick one, add up the options, tell me what you come up with. And then tell me how much power you can make with even half the money using a Pontiac build.


.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

MAST is kind of a baseline of reliable performance LS 'crate' power, at least a starting point for shopping.

https://www.mastmotorsports.com/coll.../crate-engines

Pick one, add up the options, tell me what you come up with. And then tell me how much power you can make with even half the money using a Pontiac build.


.

... and for someone who doesn't have the wherewithal to build his own Pontiac, how much is a 400-500hp Pontiac crate motor going for these days?

These are RTA kits: https://butlerperformance.com/c-1459...lder-kits.html

Don't forget to add a (modest) amount for assembly and freight.

[HWYSTR455]

Thanks for proving my point. $13k is still better than $24-28k.

.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

... and for someone who doesn't have the wherewithal to build his own Pontiac, how much is a 400-500hp Pontiac crate motor going for these days?

These are RTA kits: https://butlerperformance.com/c-1459...lder-kits.html

Don't forget to add a (modest) amount for assembly and freight.

500 reliable HP out of a 455 is easy as falling out of a tree.
I did it with 9-1 and iron heads. Just need simple stuff.
In fact, a 9-1 500-550 HP 455 is better and cheaper than a BBC.
We can do it with iron heads, iron crank and low RPM and they last forever.
Every one of the Chevy guys I raced against from 95-20019 had at least 3 engines during that time. 11- 10 sec cars.
I had one engine.

[MatthewKlein]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

MAST is kind of a baseline of reliable performance LS 'crate' power, at least a starting point for shopping.

https://www.mastmotorsports.com/coll.../crate-engines

Pick one, add up the options, tell me what you come up with. And then tell me how much power you can make with even half the money using a Pontiac build.


.

LS engines have a place in the hobby.

Accessories and motor mounts are another $1335.00 to $1985.00 on the couple LS engines I checked at that link. It also was not clear what ECU was included or not included. Not to mention the tuning/wiring everything. Changing the engine family is a can of worms with every nickle and dime it will take to be done properly.

In my experience HEI/Quadrajet combo is tough to beat for reliability. Doesn't take much to have a spare distributor if I'm going on a trip longer than an hour one way.

[Gach]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

If you go to the right shop 23k will get you a pump gas Pontiac that will eat up that Schafferoff 632. You have to know where to shop and how to get the job done.... 35k is taking advantage of folks who's primary skill is writing checks.

Oh I agree 100%.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Fastest way to slow down a Pontiac is to put an LS in it.

In some cases, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. For a car you can drive anywhere, every day, it's a pretty logical choice over a tempermental antique even when the antique is crutched with a throttle-body injection system. In this day and age, the fewer aftermarket parts, the better the reliability and lower probability of being stranded with no replacement part.

Don't get me wrong, I still love my old school 455 but if I were building a car to drive every day without limitations, the LS would be something I would consider.

[HWYSTR455]

I drove my stroker 461 daily, for years, about 68k miles or more, all up & down the east coast, rarely had a problem, never a serious one that left me stranded.

If people weren't cheap and did the same maintenance on their' classics as they do their' DD newer cars, there would be no question on reliability.


.

[HWYSTR455]

My LeMans was a DD from 1991 when I bought it to like 2010. I personally have done over 500k+ miles on it, and thats a very conservative number.

.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

In some cases, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. For a car you can drive anywhere, every day, it's a pretty logical choice over a tempermental antique even when the antique is crutched with a throttle-body injection system. In this day and age, the fewer aftermarket parts, the better the reliability and lower probability of being stranded with no replacement part.

Don't get me wrong, I still love my old school 455 but if I were building a car to drive every day without limitations, the LS would be something I would consider.

Lots of cool cars come with an LS engine and a warranty. Seems a bit ignorant to want a modern day engine in a car with antiquated brakes, suspension, interior, climate control, sound system etc..... JMO

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

In some cases, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. For a car you can drive anywhere, every day, it's a pretty logical choice over a tempermental antique even when the antique is crutched with a throttle-body injection system. In this day and age, the fewer aftermarket parts, the better the reliability and lower probability of being stranded with no replacement part.

Don't get me wrong, I still love my old school 455 but if I were building a car to drive every day without limitations, the LS would be something I would consider.

Hmmm. Just got back from a 2,715 mile road trip out to Colorado in my stock '67 GTO with born with engine, crank, rods, carb, and points distributor. I rebuilt it in 1988 about 85,000 miles ago. Car is nosing in on 260,000 miles. We averaged 20.6 mpg at a steady 75 mph and used 1/2 quart of oil the entire trip. And surprisingly, had no drivability issues at 8400 feet elevation. Car did not miss a beat. And I've been driving it for the past 40 years with no down time. People that think old tech is not usable or reliable are mis-informed. I even used to commute to work in town in my 103 year old, stock Ford T. Maintained, kept up, repaired as needed when needed, and driven within design parameters, old cars can be dead reliable.

[Gach]

Originally Posted by 64speed

Not even gonna pay 23k. The first one that I blew up (as I’m totally fault) only cost me 12k

And thats where 98% of the Pontiac hobby is at.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Hmmm. Just got back from a 2,715 mile road trip out to Colorado in my stock '67 GTO with born with engine, crank, rods, carb, and points distributor. I rebuilt it in 1988 about 85,000 miles ago. Car is nosing in on 260,000 miles. We averaged 20.6 mpg at a steady 75 mph and used 1/2 quart of oil the entire trip. And surprisingly, had no drivability issues at 8400 feet elevation. Car did not miss a beat. And I've been driving it for the past 40 years with no down time. People that think old tech is not usable or reliable are mis-informed. I even used to commute to work in town in my 103 year old, stock Ford T. Maintained, kept up, repaired as needed when needed, and driven within design parameters, old cars can be dead reliable. Attachment 614301

20.6 MPG at 75 MPH is astounding. For any vehicle that heavy its good even by today,s standards.
All the extra tech is just something to break. Does it make a little more power, pollute a little less, sure.
But IMO its not worth it. Costs go way up, simple is usually better.