[moto-d]

My theory, on the other hand, is that an armed robber sees a guy with a gun strapped to his waist, says to himself "holy s***" and moves on.

[Nomadac]

Originally Posted by moto-d

My theory, on the other hand, is that an armed robber sees a guy with a gun strapped to his waist, says to himself "holy s***" and moves on.

Your proposition is for open carry to prevent crime as posted. Maybe you should research how many states allow Open Carry? With the Anti-Gun crowd you must be kidding, as they panic at the sight of a firearm.

You have convinced us you do not support CCW's and do not feel the need to go unarmed. That is your choice. But it seems that many are of a different opinion, as the number of CCW's is increasing along with sales of firearms.

Maybe you should stick to car topics, as you do not appear to be as informed concerning Firearms and CCW's for protection.

[moto-d]

Originally Posted by Nomadac

Your proposition is for open carry to prevent crime as posted. Maybe you should research how many states allow Open Carry?

Most: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...-11-guns_N.htm

[Nomadac]

Originally Posted by moto-d

My theory, on the other hand, is that an armed robber sees a guy with a gun strapped to his waist, says to himself "holy s***" and moves on.

I guess my experience living in LA gives me a different perspective of gang bangers and criminals using guns. You must be really naive.

You make your choice and you live or die with the results.

[moto-d]

Originally Posted by Nomadac

I guess my experience living in LA gives me a different perspective of gang bangers and criminals using guns. You must be really naive.

You make your choice and you live or die with the results.

I don't think I'm naive because I don't base my beliefs on what does or doesn't happen in LA, I think I'm sane because I don't base my beliefs on what does or doesn't happen in LA, seeing as how I live several thousand miles away.

[moto-d]

And I'm not "anti-gun", as you can see from my posts.

[Ron]

Convicted by a jury of his peers. Sentence carried out.

[hurryinhoosier62]

moto-d,

If you think Brown Deer is scary, let me take you on a drive up James Lovell Ave north
past the Bradley Center to N. 6th Ave. You'll be crawling into the trunk after about three blocks!!

[moto-d]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

moto-d,

If you think Brown Deer is scary, let me take you on a drive up James Lovell Ave north
past the Bradley Center to N. 6th Ave. You'll be crawling into the trunk after about three blocks!!

Pass ... unless you agree to let me take you for a spin down Capitol to N. 60th on the northwest side, where the old Capitol Court Mall used to be. You could be black and you'd look white!!!!!!

[67_Krewzer]

..Okla. Woman Shoots, Kills Intruder: 911 Operators Say It's Okay to Shoot

By KEVIN DOLAK and RYAN OWENS | Good Morning America – 9 hrs ago.

A young Oklahoma mother shot and killed an intruder to protect her 3-month-old baby on New Year's Eve, less than a week after the baby's father died of cancer.

Sarah McKinley says that a week earlier a man named Justin Martin dropped by on the day of her husband's funeral, claiming that he was a neighbor who wanted to say hello. The 18-year-old Oklahoma City area woman did not let him into her home that day.

On New Year's Eve Martin returned with another man, Dustin Stewart, and this time was armed with a 12-inch hunting knife. The two soon began trying to break into McKinley's home.

As one of the men was going from door to door outside her home trying to gain entry, McKinley called 911 and grabbed her 12-gauge shotgun.

McKinley told ABC News Oklahoma City affiliate KOCO that she quickly got her 12 gauge, went into her bedroom and got a pistol, put the bottle in the baby's mouth and called 911.

"I've got two guns in my hand -- is it okay to shoot him if he comes in this door?" the young mother asked the 911 dispatcher. "I'm here by myself with my infant baby, can I please get a dispatcher out here immediately?"

The 911 dispatcher confirmed with McKinley that the doors to her home were locked as she asked again if it was okay to shoot the intruder if he were to come through her door.

"I can't tell you that you can do that but you do what you have to do to protect your baby," the dispatcher told her. McKinley was on the phone with 911 for a total of 21 minutes.

When Martin kicked in the door and came after her with the knife, the teen mom shot and killed the 24-year-old. Police are calling the shooting justified.

"You're allowed to shoot an unauthorized person that is in your home. The law provides you the remedy, and sanctions the use of deadly force," Det. Dan Huff of the Blanchard police said.

Stewart soon turned himself in to police.

McKinley said that she was at home alone with her newborn that night because her husband just died of cancer on Christmas Day.

"I wouldn't have done it, but it was my son," McKinley told ABC News Oklahoma City affiliate KOCO. "It's not an easy decision to make, but it was either going to be him or my son. And it wasn't going to be my son. There's nothing more dangerous than a woman with a child."

She needed the 12 gauge and a pistol?

[Gulliver]

Yesterday in USA TODAY /Jan 02, 2012

Record gun checks, sales for Christmas

By Michael Winter, USA TODAY


Along with millions of Kindles, Angry Birds and gift cards, Santa left a record number of guns under Americans' Christmas trees, especially in Kentucky, according to FBI statistics on background checks.

In the six days before Christmas, gun dealers submitted nearly half-a-million names for checks on criminal records and mental health issues, with 20% coming Dec. 23, according to news reports. That was the second-busiest gun-buying day in history, topped only by firearm purchases on Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving, The London Telegraph says.

Final tallies for the entire month haven't been released, but December gun purchases will eclipse November. As of last week, 1,534,414 names had been sent to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, The New York Times reported in an editorial. About 1% of buyers are typically rejected, the paper said.

The FBI cautions there is not a one-to-one correlation between background checks and the number of guns sold because of "varying state laws and purchase scenarios." Many customers bought multiple weapons. Exact sales are neither reported nor recorded.

For the first 11 months of 2011, the FBI did a record 14.6 million checks, an increase of more than 70% from the 8.5 million in 2003. Kentucky led the nation, with more than 2 million background checks conducted through November, double the No. 2 gun-check state, Texas. The Bluegrass State, with a population of about 4.3 million, has been tops in background checks the past five years and has the most checks of any state since 1998 -- more than 12.6 million (pdf).

Here's the FBI's state-by-state breakdown through November (pdf).

The background checks were instituted with passage of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993.

Why the growing popularity of guns?

The National Rifle Association told the Telegraph that in the face of police budget cuts and layoffs, Americans were concerned about self-defense. The NRA told CBS News that sport shooting is more popular.

Gun dealers cite fear of crime tied to a bad economy, expanded concealed-carry laws or the fear that the federal government will either restrict ownership or confiscate firearms.

"There are a lot of people concerned about pending gun legislation and the sense about the current administration. People think future availability will be limited, and there's a feeling of get it while you can," Dave LaRue of Legendary Guns in Phoenix told the Telegraph, noting that sales were up 25% from last Christmas.

There are similar stories in Ohio and New Mexico, according to news reports.

"The first-time gun buyers are the ones worried about someone breaking into their home," dealer Jeff Miller told The Dayton Daily News. "People (who already own guns) are kind of hoarding a little."

Jim Irvine, chairman of the Buckeye Firearms Association, cited several reasons, including "relaxed conceal-and-carry laws in Ohio, more women learning about guns and the pro-gun message resonating," the Daily News writes.

"Owning a gun for self-defense is like owning a fire extinguisher or smoke detectors for safety," Irvine said. "All of the fears about all of the nonsense about guns, they're really myths that are falling by the wayside."

Gun control advocates note that fear about crime appears to be greater than actual crime, which FBI statistics show has been declining. They accuse the NRA of fear-mongering.

"It's a false sense of security, but they might go purchase a gun," said Toby Hoover, executive director of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence. "I'm bothered by, especially at the holiday time, how many people think that these things ought to be holiday gifts, Christmas gifts for their families and their children. We're seeing more of that, which means it's becoming sort of an accepted thing. Firearms and weapons don't seem to go with holidays and peacefulness to me. I think we have a problem."

[moto-d]

It strikes me one of two ways:

If you want to avoid an attack, you're better off letting the attacker know you've got talons, too -- maybe even bigger ones.

If you actually don't mind getting into a gunfight and an attacker thinks you're just another helpless easy-pickings chump, go with CCW and try to out-draw him/her.

[Elarson]

Well, it's kind of an academic debate for us in Ohio. Open carry is legal, but 100% guaranteed that someone who is scared of guns will call the police and you'll be in trouble for inciting panic. Even though it is legal and you could make a legitimate argument for "displaying talons" (as you colorfully describe), it is just not a viable solution....here.

Here in Ohio, CCW or non-carry are the only 2 practical choices. I suspect the same could be said for the majority of CCW states. ONly a few states have a comfortable environment for open carry (Alaska, Arizona, Texas.....I have been lead to believe.)

Eric

[moto-d]

Not wanting to scare the bejeebers out of non-gun people is probably the best argument I've heard here yet for CCW in places other than shoot-em-up states like Texas, Arizona and Alaska. Possibly the only one yet that passes the smell test.

[Elarson]

More clarification of CCW:

Liberal fantasy: every CCW holder is a wannabe gunslinger who is itchin' for a shootout.

Real life: CCW is one part of an overall self-defense strategy. The primary approach is situational awareness and avoidance of dangerous situations and people. The gun is only a comforting backup plan if the law-abiding citizen is cornered and has no other choice.

I don't know all 245,000 CCW people in Ohio and I can't cite any statistical data, but none that I've met WANT a confrontation. All that I know prefer to have a gun but move about quietly in society without it being a center of attention.

Eric

[moto-d]

Originally Posted by Elarson

More clarification of CCW:

Liberal fantasy: every CCW holder is a wannabe gunslinger who is itchin' for a shootout.

Real life: CCW is one part of an overall self-defense strategy. The primary approach is situational awareness and avoidance of dangerous situations and people. The gun is only a comforting backup plan if the law-abiding citizen is cornered and has no other choice.

I don't know all 245,000 CCW people in Ohio and I can't cite any statistical data, but none that I've met WANT a confrontation. All that I know prefer to have a gun but move about quietly in society without it being a center of attention.

Eric

Conservative fantasy : Any person who questions the efficacy of CCW must be some wild-eyed commie who hates guns and wants to sissyfy our nation by attacking one of its key Constitutional guarantees.

Real life: Knowing who does and doesn't have a gun gives ME a feeling of security, especially knowing some law-abiding, well-meaning dufus who may have never held or pointed a gun in his life took the required 4 hours of training needed to carry and now has a Glock under his jacket as he sits at a coffee shop, waiting to be attacked. This is one reason the International Association of Chiefs of Police, the heads of most large-city police forces, and other law-enforcement organizations frown on CCW -- not open-carry, but CCW, as nobody knows whose got the guns, including the good guys.

Personally, I'm not so certain I'd like more guns "moving about quietly in society." Sure we could get to the point where no one knows with a certainty whose packing, so they leave everyone alone. And sure, the law-abiding citizen may never need the one he/she carries. I think both of those goals could be achieved by LETTING potential aggressors KNOW whose packing, and achieved more effectively.

[PonchoV8]

There is truth in both statements. I've heard and seen examples from both.

The most dangerous example was the fat balding, pot-bellied middle aged geek loser with a smarmy smirk on his face, dressed all in black with a GLOCK T-shirt and black fanny-pack on his hip that I saw while I was working at Sears Tires Store. His license plate said GLOCKEM. The guy was obviously picked on his whole life and appeared to be looking for a reason to draw on someone--but was really looking for a way to push his way around like the bullies must've done to him before he got armed. That's the tacti-cool guy that screws things up for everybody.

I heard a female African-American radio co-host say that all men with guns eventually go crazy and start shooting up something or at people. She was probably talking about the above guys.

I would want to carry open or concealed, when I want. Each would have it's place. If I went to church, I would want to go concealed. Car shopping? Open. See? It's easy.

[Elarson]

Another interesting point about a CCW license. To get mine, I had to have a background check to prove that I did not have a past criminal record. I also had to submit to a written application, fingerprinting and a photograph at the sheriff's station. If I had future criminal intent, I would not identify myself to the system like this.

So.....my CCW license makes me a certified non-criminal.

If another person (who is a stranger to you) has no CCW permit, you don't know what they are.

Every police agency that I've had direct contact with are comfortable with CCW (specifically...Sugarcreek Township Ohio, Lebanon Ohio, Ohio State Patrol, Indiana State Patrol).

Eric

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by moto-d

Conservative fantasy : Any person who questions the efficacy of CCW must be some wild-eyed commie who hates guns and wants to sissyfy our nation by attacking one of its key Constitutional guarantees.

This is "fantasy"?

May I suggest you read "More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott?

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

[moto-d]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

This is "fantasy"?

May I suggest you read "More Guns, Less Crime" by John Lott?

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

Well, Brian, I question the efficacy of CCW, and I am not a wild-eyed commie who hates guns and wants to sissyfy our nation by attacking one of its key Constitutional guarantees. So there's at least one chink in your and John Lott's argument. Probably one or two more across the nation.