[Ray Cox]

Originally Posted by Scott Roberts

Kre would never run both races.. none of their cars can make that many runs without breaking..

Doph! did you just say that!

[johnta1]

so you can run frantic 4 and q16 but you cant run q16 and go back to sp if you lose 1st round in q16 which is run before sp?

I didn't go this year, but it seemed that Q16 had a qualifying pass about the time of 1st rd of SPro?

BTW, the year my brother won Q16, you could still race the Chief of Pontiac race.
My brother was kicking everyones @ss and ended up runnerup in the Chief race.
(tree'd him and broke out from engine getting hot.)

Anyway, they changed it after that so it wasn't allowed.

[johnta1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Roberts
Kre would never run both races.. none of their cars can make that many runs without breaking..

Doph! did you just say that!

That's because KRE thinks that it is not kosher to 'double-dip' as someone said.
They tried to get it so one couldn't do that.
But the other sponsors wouldn't go for it.

[Rob B]

Frank qualified and ran in the Frantic Four race. Qualifying was on Friday and saturday morning with the race ran Saturday afternoon then all done, FF finished for this year. Frank, like everyone else who wants to race both days, enters the Q16 race (which you pay an additional $10 on top of your $70 race weekend entry) Sunday morning and QUALIFIES in the last session. There is no difference in what he did compared to anyone else who has to QUALIFY for the Q16 race, he QUALIFIED. If someone drove into the track on Sunday morning, enters that race, qualifies, bumps someone else out, then competes in it, what is the difference?? Sunday is a fresh new day of racing, those bumped go into the super pro or pro race and have their chance at the money there. Frank paid his entry, he filled the requirements to qualify, he races, period. He could have just as easily ran in super pro if he wanted but his choice was the Q16 since he already bought a spot for someone else who didn't show at Norwalk. If you enter the Q16 race, since its ran on Sunday, do you sit out the super pro or pro race on Saturday even though you paid for it in your initial weekend entry?? Are you not allowed to participate in the gamblers race on Friday??? Sure you are, why wouldn't you be??
Frank is a racer first, not a once a year exhibitionist. He actually races outside of Norwalk and competes in NHRA national/divisional events. Do you see Frank or anybody around him thrashing or wrenching on his car over the weekend? no, you see him packing the shoot and BS'ing with people and thats about it. Bottom line, that is a bracket car that runs the number (dial for those who don't understand what that means) run after run, race after race, year after year, never having to worry if its going to make it down the track or not without making a mess all over the place. His car is built to run within a specific class, and because of his success with the car, it can run in almost any bracket/class/race you want it to. put street tires and mufflers on it and you could run it in street! The man tows 2500+ miles to come to this event as well as putting sponsorship monies out there. Would you want to race as much as possible, within the rules, as you can if you came that distance?? I sure the hell would! I drive less than 300 miles to this event and I'll take every opportunity I can get to compete, that is why your there, to race and have fun and maybe win a little cash along the way.

No one is "double dipping". Thats done when someone is entered in both races on the same day/night with 2 different cars or is running the same car in 2 different brackets.
Be glad there is no "buy backs" at Norwalk. Think of the idiotic comments and crying that would go on over that... And yes I know the logistics of "buy backs" at a 400+ car event is retarded and would ultimately be portrayed as another conspiracy against a Pontiac vendor with a 7-8 pages deep thread.

[tom s]

In past years some of the HU racers have run the Q16 as the HU race is done sat also.Tom

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by Ray Cox

Doph! did you just say that!

That's the pot calling the kettle black!

[estep455]

Originally Posted by Rob B

Frank qualified and ran in the Frantic Four race. Qualifying was on Friday and saturday morning with the race ran Saturday afternoon then all done, FF finished for this year. Frank, like everyone else who wants to race both days, enters the Q16 race (which you pay an additional $10 on top of your $70 race weekend entry) Sunday morning and QUALIFIES in the last session. There is no difference in what he did compared to anyone else who has to QUALIFY for the Q16 race, he QUALIFIED. If someone drove into the track on Sunday morning, enters that race, qualifies, bumps someone else out, then competes in it, what is the difference?? Sunday is a fresh new day of racing, those bumped go into the super pro or pro race and have their chance at the money there. Frank paid his entry, he filled the requirements to qualify, he races, period. He could have just as easily ran in super pro if he wanted but his choice was the Q16 since he already bought a spot for someone else who didn't show at Norwalk. If you enter the Q16 race, since its ran on Sunday, do you sit out the super pro or pro race on Saturday even though you paid for it in your initial weekend entry?? Are you not allowed to participate in the gamblers race on Friday??? Sure you are, why wouldn't you be??
Frank is a racer first, not a once a year exhibitionist. He actually races outside of Norwalk and competes in NHRA national/divisional events. Do you see Frank or anybody around him thrashing or wrenching on his car over the weekend? no, you see him packing the shoot and BS'ing with people and thats about it. Bottom line, that is a bracket car that runs the number (dial for those who don't understand what that means) run after run, race after race, year after year, never having to worry if its going to make it down the track or not without making a mess all over the place. His car is built to run within a specific class, and because of his success with the car, it can run in almost any bracket/class/race you want it to. put street tires and mufflers on it and you could run it in street! The man tows 2500+ miles to come to this event as well as putting sponsorship monies out there. Would you want to race as much as possible, within the rules, as you can if you came that distance?? I sure the hell would! I drive less than 300 miles to this event and I'll take every opportunity I can get to compete, that is why your there, to race and have fun and maybe win a little cash along the way.

No one is "double dipping". Thats done when someone is entered in both races on the same day/night with 2 different cars or is running the same car in 2 different brackets.
Be glad there is no "buy backs" at Norwalk. Think of the idiotic comments and crying that would go on over that... And yes I know the logistics of "buy backs" at a 400+ car event is retarded and would ultimately be portrayed as another conspiracy against a Pontiac vendor with a 7-8 pages deep thread.

my only point on running both ff andq16 is they are additional races that you pay extra for. if your paying for a weekend entry (saturday and sunday races) then paying for q16 seperately then why not put the 1st round losers in sp? there choice to hotlap it but your losing that entry fee. its only 8 cars at most and then they are able to continue on. our local track and several others we race at do the same thing when they require you to buy regular tech card. run as much as you want is the way i see it, alot of us travel from a good distance away to race all weekend and run as much as we can. its there race and run it how they want we will gladly still come play no matter how its done.

[Badbird69]

Perhaps 2011 was the first year a FF car also ran in the Q16. Not sure. We thought something was fishy. We didn't have all the facts. Now that Rex offered his explanation, I understand. Apparently the rules did not specifically say it could NOT be done, so racers being racers, exploited that. Can't fault a guy for wanting to run as many laps as possible. I guess the luster of just making the FF is not enough anymore.

In the past, all the FF cars were power adder cars running on the ragged edge. The carnage and between round maintenance precluded any thought of competing in another class. It just wasn't done. Now we have several NA cars making enough reliable power in lightweight chassis, that they can compete in the FF and bracket race as well. The game has changed. It's a good time to be racing Pontiacs.

[Scott Rex]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

. The game has changed. It's a good time to be racing Pontiacs.

Yep. We've come a long way since the first Q16 in 1998:

[David Holmberg]

Originally Posted by Scott Rex

Yep. We've come a long way since the first Q16 in 1998:

I remember somewhere in the late 90's when you were trying to break into the 9's with the 70 at Norwalk. Those were fun times.

**Edit, posted before the Q16 list appeared.

[Scott Rex]

Originally Posted by David Holmberg

I remember somewhere in the late 90's when you were trying to break into the 9's with the 70 at Norwalk. Those were fun times.

**Edit, posted before the Q16 list appeared.

Weird, Sometimes it's there and sometimes not....

http://00608fe.netsolhost.com/98Q16.JPG

[David Holmberg]

I tried to get you to up the jet to get your 9, but you said "No, I'm not changing the tune up".

You had more self control than I do.

[Scott Rex]

Originally Posted by David Holmberg

I tried to get you to up the jet to get your 9, but you said "No, I'm not changing the tune up".

You had more self control than I do.

I just wanted to keep the rods in the pan...

Shoulda did it!

[Ken Criss]

Let me tell you how this race works. Jeff payes his money to Pete Woodruff for the sponsorship of this class. He gave pete a set of rules to go by and after pete gets the money he runs the race to the best of his abality. and Jeff has nothing to do with it after that time. Whether they did or not Kinsler and skigoat should have been payed if they went and picked up the money. So you were barking up the wrong tree when you went to Jeff and bitched. All you did was get the rules changed for next year ( no alternates will be allowed NHRA rules apply fastest 16 cars if someone breaks the top qualifier gets a bye run if the fastest 16 are open body cars no door cars will get in) Every body should thank Mr. Estep for the rule changes. And he should go bitch to Kinsler and Skigoat for his money. Don't piss of the guy that is trying to help ask Mr. Roberts how that worked out.
Ken

[LiL Jack]

Phuck Norwalk.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by Ken Criss

Let me tell you how this race works. Jeff payes his money to Pete Woodruff for the sponsorship of this class. He gave pete a set of rules to go by and after pete gets the money he runs the race to the best of his abality. and Jeff has nothing to do with it after that time. Whether they did or not Kinsler and skigoat should have been payed if they went and picked up the money. So you were barking up the wrong tree when you went to Jeff and bitched. All you did was get the rules changed for next year ( no alternates will be allowed NHRA rules apply fastest 16 cars if someone breaks the top qualifier gets a bye run if the fastest 16 are open body cars no door cars will get in) Every body should thank Mr. Estep for the rule changes. And he should go bitch to Kinsler and Skigoat for his money. Don't piss of the guy that is trying to help ask Mr. Roberts how that worked out.
Ken

So if there are enough KRE cars, you are saying someone could race no one all the way to the final?

[Scott Roberts]

Originally Posted by Ken Criss

Let me tell you how this race works. Jeff payes his money to Pete Woodruff for the sponsorship of this class. He gave pete a set of rules to go by and after pete gets the money he runs the race to the best of his abality. and Jeff has nothing to do with it after that time. Whether they did or not Kinsler and skigoat should have been payed if they went and picked up the money. So you were barking up the wrong tree when you went to Jeff and bitched. All you did was get the rules changed for next year ( no alternates will be allowed NHRA rules apply fastest 16 cars if someone breaks the top qualifier gets a bye run if the fastest 16 are open body cars no door cars will get in) Every body should thank Mr. Estep for the rule changes. And he should go bitch to Kinsler and Skigoat for his money. Don't piss of the guy that is trying to help ask Mr. Roberts how that worked out.
Ken

Wag the dog..it worked out great for me: ...didn't cost a dime..how about you guys?

[Probird]

Originally Posted by Ken Criss

Let me tell you how this race works. Jeff payes his money to Pete Woodruff for the sponsorship of this class. He gave pete a set of rules to go by and after pete gets the money he runs the race to the best of his abality. and Jeff has nothing to do with it after that time. Whether they did or not Kinsler and skigoat should have been payed if they went and picked up the money. So you were barking up the wrong tree when you went to Jeff and bitched. All you did was get the rules changed for next year ( no alternates will be allowed NHRA rules apply fastest 16 cars if someone breaks the top qualifier gets a bye run if the fastest 16 are open body cars no door cars will get in) Every body should thank Mr. Estep for the rule changes. And he should go bitch to Kinsler and Skigoat for his money. Don't piss of the guy that is trying to help ask Mr. Roberts how that worked out.
Ken

There was nothing wrong with the rules the way they were. 16 cars show up for 1st round and all 16 that stage a car 1st round get paid. That's the way it's written, just follow it. Not that hard and makes the most sense. Can't blame Danny for trying to inform the racers on how it really works so they can make their choice in the future to run in it or go to a bracket class instead.

[David Holmberg]

Originally Posted by Ken Criss

So you were barking up the wrong tree when you went to Jeff and bitched.
Ken

Danny didn't go to Jeff and "Bitch". He had a question and asked for clarification.

No one was mad at Kauffman or Butler over this. The promoter should have printed the rules better, as any Reasonable person would expect all 16 cars to be paid.

Your typical Bull in a china shop attitude Ken, does more to hurt the people you support than it helps.

[Ken Criss]

Originally Posted by David Holmberg

Danny didn't go to Jeff and "Bitch". He had a question and asked for clarification.

No one was mad at Kauffman or Butler over this. The promoter should have printed the rules better, as any Reasonable person would expect all 16 cars to be paid.

Your typical Bull in a china shop attitude Ken, does more to hurt the people you support than it helps.

Jeff told me this. I had my hand in my pocket and was going to pay Danny out of my own pocket $50.00 don't mean that much. Then Danny said something I don't know what , that pissed Jeff off and he pulled his hand out of his pocket and let him run off at the head. Like George said in a earlier post its all in how you handle the situation nicely or aggressive.
Ken