[Steve C.]

Regarding the exhaust -to -intake ratio I would suspect the entire exhaust system in use from the cylinder heads to the tail pipes comes into play.

Example, a 2-1/2" system vs a 3" system, type of mufflers, etc.


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[Skip Fix]

Originally Posted by 25stevem

You can’t just look at the exh to intake ratio, the level of cylinder pressure the motor will make and how fast from BDC the piston gets to its fastest acceleration point are all factors.

Yes and no. Like Steve C said it is the whole exhaust and intake packages. But it all STARTS at the head. If you can get way more out the exhaust port to tailpipes why do you need more exhaust duration. Too much overlap and big exhaust can kill velocity and scavenging out. You have an intake deficiency! So working on getting more intake flow in vs exhaust out is what you need. 4 different cams, 2 sets of headers and a couple of different exhaust systems om my NMCA RAIV I played that game.

Talks with John Schloe n his RAIV Stocker and John Angeles on his SS RAIV also.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

Looking into assembly lubes - has anyone tried Joe Gibbs assembly gel? Seems to offer the best of both worlds being a modern formula that stays put.

https://drivenracingoil.com/i-304978...oz-packet.html

https://youtu.be/aU-3mJq7DR0

I bought like 4 -6 lubes at one time, and did a garage type comparison, and can find that in this post, and that thread.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...9&postcount=14

Also made comments through the years on other lubes not listed in that post.

The actual lubricant, regardless of the 'carrier', generally stays in place, even if the carrier drips/squeezes out.

My 'understanding' is that they all 'wash out' as oil passes over the surfaces X number of time. It is also my understanding that all the specific 'engine assembly lubes' designed for bearings, etc, also provide the about same protection for START UPs. The rest is marketing. Granted, some lubricants may stay longer than another, but since startups are considered 'short duration', it kind of doesn't matter.

Read the label, and use the appropriate lube for the task at hand. You will be providing additional protection beyond what straight engine oil will provide. That's it.



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[Verdoro 68]

Thanks for finding that. Interesting reading hearing what folks use (or used). I find Engine Builder mag pretty informative.

I see what you mean about the carrier. It really doesn’t take much of a film to lubricate and protect so globbing stuff on is probably more of an exercise in perceived confidence (more is always better!).

I was wondering if I should be using an assembly grease or that gel on my cam and valve train. Sounds like I could in moderation, but the red or green stuff would be just fine.

[Formulajones]

I use this stuff and like it

https://www.redlineoil.com/assembly-lube

[Verdoro 68]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I use this stuff and like it

https://www.redlineoil.com/assembly-lube

I have some of that too. Recommended by a shop that built a set of LS heads for me years ago.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

I have some of that too. Recommended by a shop that built a set of LS heads for me years ago.

I use it on about everything accept a flat tappet cam. For that I use what the cam manufacture sends or recommends which is usually that thick grey pasty stuff.

But that redline stuff works nice, stays where it's put for extended periods and doesn't run off. Yet thin enough that it doesn't clog things up and become an issue.

[HWYSTR455]

I think part of the reason I use the stuff that comes with cams so IF and WHEN I'm asked, I can say I followed the manufacturer's recommendations/protocols.

Other part is, um, habit.

I still coat roller lobes with assembly lube, I don't think dry or engine oil is sufficient, but that too, may be an exercise in futility. (Does make me feel better tho!)


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[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I think part of the reason I use the stuff that comes with cams so IF and WHEN I'm asked, I can say I followed the manufacturer's recommendations/protocols.

Other part is, um, habit.

I still coat roller lobes with assembly lube, I don't think dry or engine oil is sufficient, but that too, may be an exercise in futility. (Does make me feel better tho!)


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Exactly why I mentioned that and do the same. When it comes to flat tappets, I use what the cam manufacture says or recommends and is usually supplied with the flat tappet camshaft. That way if there is a problem, my bases are covered.

I do put a light coat of the assembly lube I linked above on roller lobes, on pushrod tips, valve stems where rockers make contact etc..... All high pressure areas. Usually on top of that the roller rockers are soaked in oil and I usually do the same with roller lifters to make sure all those needle bearings are fully saturated.

[Verdoro 68]

I was trucking a long installing pistons tonight until I hit a snag on #7 when the #2 ring snapped while I was reinstalling it on the piston Gotta watch those ring install tools.

Looks like the rings are a unique size since I have kind of a weird bore size. Butler doesn't even list them on their website. They have CR7560-35, but not 40 so they must have special ordered them for me. I couldn't find anywhere that indicated I could order a single, so I ordered another full set from Jegs.

I have to say, after torquing and untorquing the main caps over and over for a week, the measly 63 ft/lbs required for the rod bolts does not seem like enough for the important job they do.

The cam should be here this week, so I can start degreeing that while I wait for the replacement rings to arrive. There's not really a rush on any of this since the shop still has my heads and the ETA has been next week for about two months now. I'm a little scared to bring him yet another cam card to work from, but we're not talking about a huge step up in lift between the two.

[HWYSTR455]

You can call Butler and see if they have a single ring or two, Total Seal does sell individual cyl rings. Butler may also have some that are left over from another build/effort. (but guess this is a too late thing).

They can also break a set and backfill stock with another order. (no waiting)

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[Verdoro 68]

I'll see if I can get ahold of someone there. I can always cancel my Jegs order or return it if I need to.

Question about crank end play - before I had the seal and the rods in I measured it at .007 which is within spec. Now that I've got the short block somewhat loaded, the endplay seems to have tightened up. Is that anything to be concerned about or just the nature of tying a bunch of stuff to the crank?

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

I'll see if I can get ahold of someone there. I can always cancel my Jegs order or return it if I need to.

Question about crank end play - before I had the seal and the rods in I measured it at .007 which is within spec. Now that I've got the short block somewhat loaded, the endplay seems to have tightened up. Is that anything to be concerned about or just the nature of tying a bunch of stuff to the crank?

Hm. I don't think anything should stack up and cause end play to change, it should be strictly a function of the thrust bearing.

I would look for any potential contact of the crank & rods to block. If that's not an issue, then I guess it could be the rods reaching the end of the side to side play on the small end, and the big ends are keeping the crank from moving on the rod journals.

Might be due to the crank chamfer? Are the bearings chamfered? Maybe the one that's from a different set isn't chamfered? Or the chamfer on a bearing is to the wrong side?

Just throwing ideas out there....


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[Verdoro 68]

I'll put the dial indicator on it again and see if it's just my imagination. Might just be harder to see with all the stuff installed.

I suppose that #5 bearing could be a wild card since it's a different brand, but endplay was fine when things weren't oiled up. The short block assembly turns over with around 16-18 ft/lbs right now with 6 pistons installed so it seems like it's on the right track.

[HWYSTR455]

Well, you will see a difference with oil/lube on it.

What was the reading you got, was it way off? It could be .002 tighter or even more, with oil/lube.


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[Verdoro 68]

False alarm on my part. I remeasured the thrust last night and it's exactly where it was at .007.

I also found a SuperFlow dyno at a shop only a few miles away. Might be fun (and probably disappointing) to run this thing.

[Formulajones]

I'd run it if it's in the budget.

[Verdoro 68]

Put the 236/242 cam in the block last night. Spins nicely and free. The Sims cam retainer and timing set is really nice with very explicit instructions.

The timing chain sprockets on the other hand are too tight. The crank in particular won't go on at all. I'm assuming they need to be honed for an easier slip fit. What's the best way to do that? Could I use a brake cylinder hone?

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

.....The timing chain sprockets on the other hand are too tight. The crank in particular won't go on at all. I'm assuming they need to be honed for an easier slip fit. What's the best way to do that? Could I use a brake cylinder hone?

Hm. Well, you can hit the gears with some emery/wet sandpaper to make sure there's no edges/flash. Can do the same on the end of the crank snout too. Can clean after with WD-40.

And the cam one goes on fine? I know sometimes the crank snout on aftermarket cranks are at-spec, and little to no room for gears/balancer in some cases.

I would still only hit the inside of the gears, and only sand the crank snout at the end where the transition areas are. Check balancer fit too.

Keep checking fit of gears wo the chain, and get a 'feel' for the fit. If it still just isn't going to go, you could use a brake hone, but would be wary of doing too much.



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[HWYSTR455]

Test fitting the gears helps seat the keys too.

Even the slightest debris on the parts can make them hard to install, and I usually install dry. Lube can make it more difficult to install as well.

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