[hurryinhoosier62]

big hammer,

Brad is a former engine machinist. I'm a retired master engine machinist(gas and diesel) and diesel injection tech.Bigunde has years of experience with diesel engines. Pray tell WHAT is your experience? Frankly, your ignorance is showing.

[big hammer]

your ignorance is showing in a massive way. there have been no major v8 diesels since when? the 80's? and why.... they sucked! 3208's and 3408's would all GRENADE under a high torque load application. if you got 1\3 to 1\2 the life of an I6 with a v8 diesel you were doing well. there's a good reason they went away from them. it sounds like you havent been around a piece of heavy machinery in your life.

[sleepy]

Originally Posted by big hammer

your ignorance is showing in a massive way. there have been no major v8 diesels since when? the 80's? and why.... they sucked! 3208's and 3408's would all GRENADE under a high torque load application. if you got 1\3 to 1\2 the life of an I6 with a v8 diesel you were doing well. there's a good reason they went away from them. it sounds like you havent been around a piece of heavy machinery in your life.

I think you should do a little reserve. V-8 diesels are almost 90% of the heavy equipment engines on the planet. They were pretty much gone from road use because of their weight.
The I-6 weighs less and is easier to service than the V-8 but mostly the weight.
In construction equipment(off road) the weight doesn't matter. ON-road weight is a huge concern.

[giddygoat]

Theres a 7.3 Ford in southern MN that the owner claims is over 900,000 miles and going for 1m on the original engine... Its a two wheel drive, the owner runs an over the road service. Take a look at the for sale ads on these trucks, not many chev 3/4 or 1 tons listed to begin with, lot of Fords, most with 150,000 to 300,000 miles on the clock, they are not setting in the shed.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by giddygoat

Take a look at the for sale ads on these trucks, not many chev 3/4 or 1 tons listed to begin with, lot of Fords, most with 150,000 to 300,000 miles on the clock, they are not setting in the shed.

That's one theory.

Another is that the Chevy owners are happy with their "longest lasting, most dependable trucks" and are still using them. The Ford owners are tired of Fixing Or Reparing Daily...

What we do know for a fact is that there are more Chevy's still registered than Fords over the last 30 years - despite the fact that Ford built more trucks.

Which clearly means that more Fords end up in the scrap yard sooner than Chevys.

[68gtoMN]

Originally Posted by The Champ

That's one theory.

Another is that the Chevy owners are happy with their "longest lasting, most dependable trucks" and are still using them. The Ford owners are tired of Fixing Or Reparing Daily...

What we do know for a fact is that there are more Chevy's still registered than Fords over the last 30 years [cite your source for this "fact"] - despite the fact that Ford built more trucks.

Originally Posted by The Champ

Which clearly means that more Fords end up in the scrap yard sooner than Chevys.

No, it only means that there are more registrations. If you had any training in statistical analysis (yes, I do), you would know that the conclusion you arrive at is indefensible. You have an illogical syllogism at best.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

No, it only means that there are more registrations. If you had any training in statistical analysis (yes, I do), you would know that the conclusion you arrive at is indefensible. You have an illogical syllogism at best.

If a truck is not registered, it can not be legally operated on public roads. Ford has already admitted that Chevy has more registrations. It's an accepted fact that Ford built more trucks.

So, while you claim that I have made an illogical syllogism, you have no form of statistical analysis to validate your claim (and Ford's) that Ford has more trucks over 250,000 miles.

Although you tried to claim that the vehicle's registration would document the mileage and prove this assumption, it was a claim that was very easy to discredit, and more of an illogical syllogism than I have made here.

[68gtoMN]

Originally Posted by The Champ

If a truck is not registered, it can not be legally operated on public roads. Ford has already admitted that Chevy has more registrations. It's an accepted fact that Ford built more trucks.

So, while you claim that I have made an illogical syllogism, you have no form of statistical analysis to validate your claim (and Ford's) that Ford has more trucks over 250,000 miles.

Although you tried to claim that the vehicle's registration would document the mileage and prove this assumption, it was a claim that was very easy to discredit, and more of an illogical syllogism than I have made here.

Perhaps the registration does not carry the mileage. I concede the point. However, the title would and it would be possible to perform such a search, although difficult. Ford has admitted that Chevy has more registrations? OK - please provide a link to this information for all to see. It might be true or it might just be a claim - we'll know when we see your proof. Remember, the burden of proof rests with the party making the claim. I will refrain from repeating Ford's claim of more vehicle with more than 200,000 miles as I do not readily have access to this data.

Now to examine your conclusions based on "thin evidence" - here's where you fail.

Having more registrations = being more dependable. Really?

• Where is your empirical evidence to support this claim?
• How is "more dependable" defined here?
• What is the criteria on which this claim is made?
• Are you separating consumer use from industrial/commercial use?

With 40 percent market share, Ford is America’s commercial truck leader

http://media.ford.com/article_displa...ticle_id=29958
Ford has, by a HUGE margin, the highest percentage of ambulance (van chassis) market and has continued to update the vehicles vs. only slight revisions from the 1995 Chevy redesign

But let's again examine the claim of "longest lasting" and "most dependable". Neither can be proven by registrations alone without major assumptions; hence, the questions above.

• How were trucks used - purpose for purchase?
• What is the average mileage of each brand of consumer/commercial truck?
• Does having more registrations equate to more dependable? That's much too great a reach. E.g. if a Chevy owner drives less miles per year, he will theoretically have a longer "assumed life" for the vehicle. Does that make it more dependable?

Back to original debate about engines - how does the new Ecoboost engine from Ford stack up against the established large displacement engines of the others? Quite well, I believe. Equal or better total power, higher usable torque available sooner in RPM range and across wider RPM range, higher payload rating, higher towing rating, smaller, lighter package, great fuel economy without sacrificing "working nature" of truck. In all, Ford did a great job and I salute them.

If you like a Chevy better - keep buying them. Again, this is YOUR liking, your money and your decision. The Ecoboost engine family, however, is a technological Tour De Force.

[giddygoat]

On the 292 mount location, does this have to be modified to fit into a non 292 vehicle?

[giddygoat]

Or another theory, longest lasting, most dependable infrequenly used? They all have thier issues. Guy I do alot of repair work for would never get a Ford, he has a 88 half, a 74? 3/4 ton 6.2 diesel, a 2006 3/4 gas, and a 1 ton Duramax dually and a 1 ton 78 Dually gas 454. The two not having something major go on the engine is the 454 and the 06. The 88 is on at least its 3rd intake gasket and the radio and heating controls have never worked correctly from new. The 6.2 well lets just say he could have bought a brand new truck for all the money that has gone it to that POS. The 06 has been ok no major problems, the Duramax had injector and pump issues, cost was over 4k to fix, he does not drive it in the winter, does not start well, less than 100,000 when that occured.
He drives a citiation for the mileage, typical of GM owners, maybe they just like to keep them around. Just ran a search on Minneapolis Craigs list for Ford Trucks 405 for sale, Chevy Trucks 137, GMC Trucks 84. What does it mean? not sure. Would be nice if there was a way to track the actual mileage driven, registered really does not mean use. I have two GM and one Ford currently registered but mostly drive the Ford.

[sleepy]

True. I have a motor home sitting next to my garage that hasn't moved for four years(no time and costs to much for gas, cheaper to get motel) and the city ordinance says it has to have current plates on it.
The vettes have currant plates(2) and are driven VERY little, the 02 bird convertible has sat with currant plates for two years(fuel pump took a dump three days after i had the trans rebuilt so I parked it)
If I had the 68 bird and the 64GP(restoring both) parked outside they would have to have currant plates too.

[dennis kirban]

While the debate lingers on what camp has the most trucks on the road.....

At least in America we have choices....

I am sure both GM and Ford make good money on the number of trucks they sell.

Realistically from a marketing standpoint they need them to wear out.....so you will buy another one!

I am sure if enough research was conducted the findings would be some years GM builds the best truck and some years Ford scores......

Every company has winners and losers in their portfolio.....

[email protected]

I got one SUV of each.........

[Tom Vaught]

"Nothing Rusts like a Chevy Truck"

That being said I looked at my 2001 Ranger Super Cab and see that the running boards (the little steps to help old ladies get into the truck) are starting to rust on mine so I guess I will have to get after those in the spring time. Lots of chebbys rotted out at the rear wheel houses. No rust on mine (PLASTIC BED).

I have hauled a lot of sand in that truck with no issues.

Tom Vaught

[455Grandville]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

"Nothing Rusts like a Chevy Truck"

That being said I looked at my 2001 Ranger Super Cab and see that the running boards (the little steps to help old ladies get into the truck) are starting to rust on mine so I guess I will have to get after those in the spring time. Lots of chebbys rotted out at the rear wheel houses. No rust on mine (PLASTIC BED).

I have hauled a lot of sand in that truck with no issues.

Tom Vaught

Yea, everytime I see a Ford it's being used like a truck, the Chebbys I see are suburbia guys who use 'em to go to Lowe's & pick up a few 2 x 4s. I can't count how many old farmtrucks Ive seen that are Fords, but almost never a Chebby. Same goes for all the machine shops and industrial parks I've worked in: Ford trucks when they have to haul heavy material. With Chebbys weak frames they simply will not hold up to the relentless abuse.

Originally Posted by 68gtoMN

No, it only means that there are more registrations. If you had any training in statistical analysis (yes, I do), you would know that the conclusion you arrive at is indefensible. You have an illogical syllogism at best.

Well said; you'd have to know are the variables (how the trucks are used) and how the Ford was used vs. the Chebby. although my sample size is not huge, everytime I see a construction site it's almost always Fords. A truck used in that application will certainly live a harder life then a suburbia truck.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by 455Grandville

, everytime I see a construction site it's almost always Fords. A truck used in that application will certainly live a harder life then a suburbia truck.

Same around here....

[wytnyt]

while that has seemed so,lately ive lots of dodges popping up

[Brewster]

I picked up my new 2500HD Duramax four door short box last month and so far so good. It blows away my old 2003 Duramax via power and fuel ratios so far.
Love the new truck and thought I'd note it, cant wait to pull something this spring!

[Brewster]

I picked up my new 2500HD Duramax four door short box last month and so far so good. It blows away my old 2003 Duramax via power and fuel ratios so far.
Love the new truck and thought I'd note it, cant wait to pull something this spring!

[hurryinhoosier62]

big hammer,

You REALLY shouldn't compare a 3208 (I've machined HUNDREDS!!) to the 3408. The 3208 is a MID-RANGE diesel, while the 3408 is a HEAVY diesel engine. Apparently, no one has ever told you the Detroit 8V71s and 8V92 were some of the MOST POPULAR and DURABLE OTR powerplants EVER built. Do YOU know WHY Detroit Diesel stopped building them? It had NOTHING to do with durability; they couldn't meet emission specs.How much do you know about locomotives or tow boats? Growing up in S. central Indiana along the banks of the Ohio, you learn a great deal about tow boats. Jeffboat(largest inland shipyard in the U.S.) builds them regularly. They are normally powered by EMD(ElectroMotive Division) V-12s or V-16s (4,500hp -7,000hp). Ever seen one? I have.I used to build the fuel injectors for them along with the older ALCOs. Look at your arm. That's how long the SOBs are. Additionally, they weigh around 100lbs EACH.Care to guess HOW LONG these engines stay in service? ON AVERAGE, 20yrs. The old Fairbanks Morse inline compounds averaged around 5-7yrs. I presume you're going to assert that these engines(EMDs and ALCOs) don't see any loads, aren't you? The average tow boat displaces around 200 tons(400,000lbs). An average barge displaces around 75-100 tons depending on length(144,000-200,000lbs) EMPTY. The AVERAGE 30 barge tow has a total displacement of 3200 tons EMPTY. This same tow can handle a load equal to that carried by 150 tractor/trailer combos. That's 9 MILLION POUNDS!! Remember, these are those "unreliable" V style diesels you CONTINUE to opine about. Yes, the current crop of Class 8, inline diesels are far more powerful and reliable than their V-style predecessors. HOW MANY years of re-engineering and federal mandates did it take to achieve these numbers? I can remember when the NT-855 Cummins was the "hottest" inline you could get and it STILL gave up nearly 70hp to the 8V92s. (250 vs 318). We had customers we built K1250 and K2500 series Cummins for because NO OTHER inline was powerful and RELIABLE enough. They modified their tractors(lengthed the nose by 2ft) to fit these monsters under the hoods. We also built 12V71s for others that needed more power. I'll close with this point. The biggest V-12s I have personally machined are the 12V149 Detroits. We had a contract with Amax Coal to rebuild these monsters. They were used to supply electrical power to coal mines(underground) in S.Illinois. These engines ran 24/7. Even if the mines weren't in operation, the engines and generators had to run to keep the water pumps operating. Try THAT with an inline!!

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by hurryinhoosier62

big hammer,

You REALLY shouldn't compare a 3208 (I've machined HUNDREDS!!) to the 3408. The 3208 is a MID-RANGE diesel, while the 3408 is a HEAVY diesel engine. Apparently, no one has ever told you the Detroit 8V71s and 8V92 were some of the MOST POPULAR and DURABLE OTR powerplants EVER built. Do YOU know WHY Detroit Diesel stopped building them? It had NOTHING to do with durability; they couldn't meet emission specs.How much do you know about locomotives or tow boats? Growing up in S. central Indiana along the banks of the Ohio, you learn a great deal about tow boats. Jeffboat(largest inland shipyard in the U.S.) builds them regularly. They are normally powered by EMD(ElectroMotive Division) V-12s or V-16s (4,500hp -7,000hp). Ever seen one? I have.I used to build the fuel injectors for them along with the older ALCOs. Look at your arm. That's how long the SOBs are. Additionally, they weigh around 100lbs EACH.Care to guess HOW LONG these engines stay in service? ON AVERAGE, 20yrs. The old Fairbanks Morse inline compounds averaged around 5-7yrs. I presume you're going to assert that these engines(EMDs and ALCOs) don't see any loads, aren't you? The average tow boat displaces around 200 tons(400,000lbs). An average barge displaces around 75-100 tons depending on length(144,000-200,000lbs) EMPTY. The AVERAGE 30 barge tow has a total displacement of 3200 tons EMPTY. This same tow can handle a load equal to that carried by 150 tractor/trailer combos. That's 9 MILLION POUNDS!! Remember, these are those "unreliable" V style diesels you CONTINUE to opine about. Yes, the current crop of Class 8, inline diesels are far more powerful and reliable than their V-style predecessors. HOW MANY years of re-engineering and federal mandates did it take to achieve these numbers? I can remember when the NT-855 Cummins was the "hottest" inline you could get and it STILL gave up nearly 70hp to the 8V92s. (250 vs 318). We had customers we built K1250 and K2500 series Cummins for because NO OTHER inline was powerful and RELIABLE enough. They modified their tractors(lengthed the nose by 2ft) to fit these monsters under the hoods. We also built 12V71s for others that needed more power. I'll close with this point. The biggest V-12s I have personally machined are the 12V149 Detroits. We had a contract with Amax Coal to rebuild these monsters. They were used to supply electrical power to coal mines(underground) in S.Illinois. These engines ran 24/7. Even if the mines weren't in operation, the engines and generators had to run to keep the water pumps operating. Try THAT with an inline!!

i still say you haven't operated a piece of heavy machinery in your life. everyone laughs about weak and ****ty the old v8's were. the old detroits were slobbering oil leaking torqueless POS engines. you had to keep them screaming at high rpm to pull anything. try to lug them and they fall flat on their face. yes in a small load application they will run a long time, but then again so will a 6.2 gm diesel.