[rare4k]

Well got the PHS back today on the car I bought last week, Ram Air III, hood tach no gauge's no power steering but power brakes. Three speed trans on Burgundy, what a odd ball judge

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[vertigto]

Odd indeed. You are a braver man than I...

[padgett]

"Last Stop Garage" often uses diggers to move things. Marty Raney moves chicken coops.

Black Friday 2019 I got this great deal on a 75" Philips. Dutch name licensed to Japanese company and made in Mexico.

Brought my Judge home on a trailer it drove on. Looong time ago.

[padgett]

True, an H is an H is an H unless it is a Healey 100-4.

OTOH with a four-five-or 6 speed first and reverse are liable to be nearly anywhere. Most confusing for me is a Merc 5 speed which is a conventional H with two more gears off to the right.

Column shift four speeds (i.e. Citroen) are not far off.

[Jerry H.]

The way it's equipped sounds like a dealer ordered car for a 'price leader'. Hardly no options.

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by Jerry H.

The way it's equipped sounds like a dealer ordered car for a 'price leader'. Hardly no options.

Would agree with Jerry's "price leader" description,
AM radio, console, & all tinted glass were all commonly ordered by a huge majority of southern dealers on 70 GTO's, LeMans Sports, & Grand Prixs, even factory non AC cars. The main oddity of this '70 Judge order is the base transmission (HD Muncie 3spd) was retained thus keeping the entry price even that more palatable for a buyer on a budget.

[Diego]

Originally Posted by Jerry H.

The way it's equipped sounds like a dealer ordered car for a 'price leader'. Hardly no options.

Is there something in the PHS that shows it was a dealer stock car versus, say, a customer-ordered car?

[padgett]

Don't think so, too many options (push button radio, console, soft-ray glass, pdb, posi...). Florida car and no AC ?

Were people who saw no purpose in a four speed.

Suspect it came with a plain T-handle that just said "Hurst"

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by padgett

...
Were people who saw no purpose in a four speed.

I have heard it several times from people who drove three speed cars back then, that there was nothing wrong with them, and often the gear spacing was more ideal for stoplight racing than a four speed.

Originally Posted by padgett

Suspect it came with a plain T-handle that just said "Hurst"

This is correct.
I have understood that it wasn't unusual for period three speed cars t have not shift pattern indicator, since three speed was what cars had for such a long time - it was the four speed cars which showed the pattern.

[rare4k]

Correct on the handle

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[rare4k]

Well how many burgundy 3 spd judge's are out there ?

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[padgett]

Need to dig out a filing cabinet that is blocked by the printer.

ps in case you want to restore it, this is what it is supposed to look like.

[hawkins69]

Great find! I like the option content on that one. I’d take a 3speed manual with no ac over an auto car anyday

[OCMDGTO]

That paint should buff right out. Seriously, it's a really cool car that would be nice to save. You have your work cut out for you

[jamesq]

Wasn't the original intent of the Judge option to be a low-content competitor to the Road Runner? This one would be true to that mission.
James Q

[Diego]

except, as I have understood it, the Judge was something of an image car with an upgraded engine from the base GTO engine

Wasn't the GTO the image car? When Pontiac advertised the updated '70, it didn't feature the Judge. Rather, it featured the GTO and announced the 455.

Even on the cover of the performance brochure, we see the Judge playing second fiddle:

Originally Posted by jamesq

Wasn't the original intent of the Judge option to be a low-content competitor to the Road Runner? This one would be true to that mission.

There was about $500 separating the two.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

3.55 Safe-T-Track in 1970 GTO could be STT or STT HD , up to the buyers (or dealers) knowledge.

Have 1970 Invoices reflecting both STT and STT HD in Manual Trans D-Port cars without any axle ratio option (3.55) .

Also have a 1968 3.55 Posi from a 4spd GTO that is not an "N" housing.
Don't know how-why on that one - its just that way

[north]

I always felt that the optioned added to all the pattern (69) Judges was done with two things in mind...

1... to have the installed options that would both create the right "younger" first impression image of the car while satisfying most typical target buyers... i.e. power disc brakes, power steering gauges, Safe-t-track, radio, console, tach (with manual trans) etc.

2... to sneak in some low priced but high profit items that increased profit per car without raising the sticker price too much to impact sales volume... i.e. soft ray glass all around, deluxe seat belts

Those options in item 2 (tinted glass and deluxe belts) were almost 100% pure profit (there is no real added cost to those type of options) and most typical judge buyers would do without but they were cheap enough that they didn't say no to buying the car anyhow over an extra $50 in the selling price. This however gave GM an extra $50 of profit on all those initial Judges.

I think the did it right in that those first Judges were optioned in a way that balanced youthful image and profitability right. If for example they allowed Judges to go out the door day one in different colors and with things like vinyl tops and bench seats the Judge would have disappeared from the public interest. They made them all alike enough to sear that desired image in the public mindset of what a Judge was while allowing enough flexibility (transmission choice, AC or not) to satisfy enough prospective buyers so that the initial run of cars wouldn't collect dust on dealer lots, which would have also destroyed the cars image and reputation.

[north]

Here is a question on this car... why is the Safe-T-Track not HD? All axles 3.36 and numerically higher should be billed out as HD STT at $63.19. You normally only see the $42.13 STT (non-HD) billed out on AC cars which this car doesn't have.

My guess is this car was ordered by an individual buyer who just wanted the car to suit his personal tastes.

If the dealer really wanted a "price leader" Judge to draw buyers I'd think he wouldn't have ordered things like a console or a STT or power brakes. Especially since those few little extras pushed the car over the phycological barrier of $4k.

Most dealers who were ordering any kind of "bait" cars would order power steering but not power brakes because for the vast majority of budget buyers power brakes were really not needed but power steering was a real pain to live without.

['ol Pinion head]

Originally Posted by north

Here is a question on this car... why is the Safe-T-Track not HD? All axles 3.36 and numerically higher should be billed out as HD STT at $63.19. You normally only see the $42.13 STT (non-HD) billed out on AC cars which this car doesn't have.

My guess is this car was ordered by an individual buyer who just wanted the car to suit his personal tastes.

If the dealer really wanted a "price leader" Judge to draw buyers I'd think he wouldn't have ordered things like a console or a STT or power brakes. Especially since those few little extras pushed the car over the phycological barrier of $4k.

Most dealers who were ordering any kind of "bait" cars would order power steering but not power brakes because for the vast majority of budget buyers power brakes were really not needed but power steering was a real pain to live without.

To answer your first question, all '70 model PONTIAC 8.2 SAFE-T-TRACK-HD rears were 3.90's & 4.33's. Look at a few original invoice copies, all '70 model HD STT rears will have a retail billing of $63.19 & were either in RA4 cars or were special ordered (often behind an M21) in a base horse or RA3 GTO. A factory installed 4 pinion STT carrier, alone, does not make a HD STT rear. In the '69 & '70 GP Pontiac 8.2's, the mid ratio (typically 3.23) 8.2 STT rears all were of a 4 pinion carrier design, but center hsgs were gray iron & axles were std duty verions. Disassemble & reassemble a bunch of these later Pontiac 8.2 rears & it becomes clear, the PONTIAC 8.2 10-bolt 3.55 SAFE-T-TRACK rears while sharing the N housing & 4 pinion low ratio carrier, do not originally have the HD forged axles used in the HD STT 8.2 rears.

As far as All Tinted Glass option goes it is very very common in the South, SW, & the Plains states. Dealers down this way typically clicked it off more often than not on late '60's & early 70's non AC LeMans & GTO. Much more so than they did just a tinted windshield, which was a much more common process on '64-67 A-bodys in these parts. AM radios ordered in nearly every A-body seemed to be very common option as well. Thats my experience down this way after near 4 decades of extensive boneyarding, & dragging in parts & project cars.

Currently, I have a local customer (original owner) with a '70 GTO. It's almost ready for paint. Like the above '70 Judge it is also a burgundy car, don't see many that color. Originally equipped as WT, M20, manual strg & power drums, AM radio, no console, original rear is 3.55 STT. Odd enough, for it being dealer stock ordered in Zone 20, it only had a tinted front windshield which is what I typically run across further up north. Have sold quite a bit of original glass over the years & it's been a PITA for a long time to source nice uncratched clear back glass for this era of two door Pontiac A-body.