[mrmark1957]

I'm putting a Summit 2801 cam into a stock engine with # 13 heads. Using Comp 988 valve springs and rubber o-ring valve stem oil seals. Exhaust lift is .466 inch. Can I use stock valve spring retainers or will I need short ones, Like Howard's #97126 ? Thanks.

[John Milner]

I would use the stock retainers if you are using the o-rings on the valve stem. I would measure seal to guide clearance just to be safe but you should be ok with that cam.

[chiphead]

I just went through this with a 2802 swap into a 69 400 with 62 heads. I used the Crower 68404 valvesprings and the crower deep-dish retainers. On my motor, the guides were machined for vitons. I had to use the deep-dish retainers to give extra IH to clear the vitons.

I can say that it is very unlikely that the stock retainers will clear any sort of guide-mounted oil control seal. If you use the stock O-rings and stock retainers with no guide-mounted oil control, you've also got to use the spring shields under the retainers. So make sure that whatever springs you use will fit under the spring shields.

Check the guide-to-retainer clearance at the .466 lift. Typical minimum clearance is recommended to be .050" or more. My motor got away with .038" between the retainer and the viton at max lift. I don't recommend less than .050, this is a short term motor for me.

The summit cams wants about 110-118 on the seat and about 255-275 on the nose. Choose springs that give those pressures at 1.6IH. Measure with a IH micrometer, don't guess or assume. You'll be surprised.

[lust4speed]

I guess I'll be the one to ask why you are retaining an ancient oil control system? I would have the guides cut down for Viton seals and do away with the old O-rings and shields.

[mrmark1957]

The Summit cam has .050 inch more lift than the stock Pontiac 066 cam. I'm thinking a .050 inch short retainer should give me the same clearance as the stock setup.

[mrmark1957]

Machine shops around here either don't want to be bothered just machining the valve guides or are so busy they say come back in 6 months. I figure that the stock setup worked well for millions of engines and I could handle this quickly and easily myself.

[54nomore]

Two problems I see with those Howards retainers: First, they don't match the diameter of the 988 springs and second, they won't seal on the factory o-rings (rendering them useless). Plus they use 10 degree locks and will likely raise your installed height.

[mrmark1957]

Does anyone make a retainer that would fit in my application ?

[chiphead]

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...=863292&page=2

Plenty of way to skin the cat. The low-buck chuck way is to use the stock retainers, stock spring shields, stock O-rings and a set of Crower 68404 springs. I checked and they do fit under the stock spring shields. I don't know if the Comp 988s do. This is all predicated on having enough clearance between the retainer and guide at max lift.

With stock height guides and no guide-mounted seal, you "should" be OK. Always check it with a dial indicator. The Vitons take up about .150", which was why I had so much trouble getting the retainer to guide clearance, I was trying not to mash the vitons. Without them, you should clear by a mile. My guides are sloppy AF, so I need the Vitons to keep the oil under control until I take this motor out of service.

The 2801 should be able to reuse the stock pushrods and bottleneck stud system. It should be a straightforward swap. I do suggest having the spring pressure checked on a few springs with the retainer you're going to use. Seat and open pressures can change depending on the retainer used. Typically springs are spec'd using their matching retainer. A shop can do a bench test with a Rimac.

The ideal way to do this is to convert to vitons, have the guides machined down .200" so you can run plenty of cam lift. Convert to BBC straight studs so you have adjustable valvetrain. That would open up a lot of cam possibilities in the future. It just depends on how long you're going to keep this engine going, and the condition of the guides/valves/seats now.

And whatever you do, pull the inners for break-in. I just had good luck with Lucas 30W break in oil and being careful. Use a set of HJ lifters from Butler, don't cheap out on the lifters.

[Half-Inch Stud]

I'm keen to dry-fit LS retainers and Springs while tracking the weight saved. Anybody investigate LS stuff??

[Jay S]

988’s should be a direct swap with stock springs, retainers, and splash guards.

I would leave the inners in for brake in with 988s. Not sure 988’s would have enough pressure to break in very well with out the inners? 230 lb/in spring rate, about 100 lbs/in less than a 68404 Crower. 988s are a good choice.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Reasonably priced springs for your application from a reliable source (Paul Spotts) here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/28508565549...AAAOSwmrlU0mJ9

You can use the original retainers with o-ring seals and shields also if preferred with that low-lift cam. New locks are always recommended. New retainers are good insurance but given the proliferation of import products, I'd stick with your originals. Offset locks are available to allow you to fine tune your installed height but again, with that cam, it's not critical. This also assumes you stick with your stock valves or OEM style replacements that have the 2nd groove for the oil seal.

Aftermarket valves like Ferrea have a single groove and require you to machine your guide bosses down and install viton seals for oil control. While you don't need to do this given the lift specs of your cam it does make for better oil control, is more tolerant to valve guide wear and machining clearance (you can run slightly looser guide fit) without penalty of oil consumption especially at startup. Assuming your heads have OEM valves, they are probably fine to run assuming the stems aren't badly worn. This is where you need to decide how much insurance you can afford. If I were assured the valves were OEM and not more recent Asian replacements, I'd be inclined to say they will be fine. You're basically re-building a stock motor and the OEM valves GM used were up to the task for 100's of thousands of miles. If you plan to be absolutely brutal with the motor and red line every shift, then new one-piece valves are in order. I still like to romp on mine but it never sees the high side of 5,000 rpm for more than the blink of an eye anymore.

I built mine long before Ferrea valves were a thing. Manleys were available but very pricey at the time so I just went with Mellings OEM replacement RAIV valves. That was at a time when parts were US made and a two-piece valve was still a quality valve. I had the guides machined for Viton seals and used a Crane Rev Kit (springs, retainers and locks) specified for my cam.

[Nyairguard]

did the Howard's #97126 change the install height?

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

This also assumes you stick with your stock valves or OEM style replacements that have the 2nd groove for the oil seal... ...You're basically re-building a stock motor and the OEM valves GM used were up to the task for 100's of thousands of miles. If you plan to be absolutely brutal with the motor and red line every shift, then new one-piece valves are in order.

The OEM 2-piece valves were also used with light valve springs, which inherently limited RPM.

Upgrade the valve springs to something stiffer, and/or run the engine to higher RPM than Grandma did, and one-piece valves look pretty good.

But I'm not aware of quality valves that have the O-ring groove.