#1  
Old 09-14-2019, 10:50 AM
Scott65's Avatar
Scott65 Scott65 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,991
Default adding ethanol content sensor

I'm adding an ethanol content sensor to be able to run E85 as an option, the Continental model specifically. Only major hurdle is that it's lines are 3/8" tubing, factory efi style. Fittings are available to adapt it to A/N lines, so that's no issue. The issue is in trying not to create a restriction. The rest of my supply/return lines are -8, as recommended by the pumps manufacturer. I currently use these -8 lines single in/out, Y'd at the rails to a single port on a 2 port return style regulator. I have no fuel delivery issues currently. My thinking is, if I add a "T" in the current single line to the regulator, pass that fuel through the sensor and into the currently unused port on the regulator, that I can avoid creating a restriction. Essentially I'm passing the same volume of fuel, now through two pathways. I've attached a crude drawing for illustrative purposes. The purple is what would be added everything else, is existing. Red depicts the return side of the rails currently. Any thoughts, or suggestions appreciated.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Ethanol sensor.png
Views:	206
Size:	35.3 KB
ID:	520117  

__________________
'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31
  #2  
Old 09-14-2019, 12:42 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

By-pass reading of the ethanol content is perfectly acceptable and recommended.

Tom V.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
  #3  
Old 09-14-2019, 12:52 PM
Scott65's Avatar
Scott65 Scott65 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,991
Default

Thanks Tom. Do you think the method I depicted will avoid creating a restriction?

__________________
'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31
  #4  
Old 09-14-2019, 06:44 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

Yes, you will be fine, your concept will allow the fuel sensor "leg" to pass enough fuel (thru the sensor) to not restrict normal flow and the normal fuel system system "leg" will allow the NORMAL fuel flow the engine needs if it is properly sized.

What ever the inlet to the sensor is, go up one size on the fuel line flow size for that leg.

Tom V.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
  #5  
Old 09-14-2019, 07:33 PM
Scott65's Avatar
Scott65 Scott65 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,991
Default

The sensor is 3/8, it will be fed through a -8 line.

__________________
'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31
  #6  
Old 09-14-2019, 08:24 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

Looking at them concept from a pressure differential point of view, it will pass the fuel that it can and the other leg will pass as much fuel as it can. There is really no "robbing of the fuel" to the engine like a return line before the carb (for example) would be.

You should be just fine.

Tom V.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
  #7  
Old 09-14-2019, 08:40 PM
krisr's Avatar
krisr krisr is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sydney, OZ
Posts: 1,433
Default

Scott you can also run content sensors on the pressure side also. I run mine there because my return is already inside the fuel tank.

Also as Tom said, you'll be fine on the return size.

__________________
'71 Holden HQ Monaro - 3850lbs race weight, 400c/i - 11.4 @ 120
'66 Pontiac GTO - 389, 4 speed street cruiser
  #8  
Old 09-14-2019, 09:19 PM
Scott65's Avatar
Scott65 Scott65 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,991
Default

I chose the return side because Magnafuel is fairly adamant about not restricting the pump, and using -8 fuel lines for the protuner pumps. I know that 3/8 is smaller than recommended. I figured on the return, I should be ok adding a second leg. The regulator should keep both legs pressurized, and I know that one -8 main return line is working. So... this was the method that seemed to satisfy all requirements in my mind. I probably won't add it til winter, as I really need to replace all my lines, especially before actually using E85. Makes sense to do it all at once. Thanks for the input all.

__________________
'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31
  #9  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:12 AM
Hooter's Avatar
Hooter Hooter is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Springfield, IL
Posts: 3,868
Default

This is what I plan on running. Many guys on Drag Week use it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Flex-Fuel-S...72.m2749.l2649

__________________
65 Lemans Street Car - 521, T400, 3.70 9". 10.13 @ 135. 3770 lbs. Drag Week ‘14, ‘15, ‘17

63 Lemans Race Car- 8.81 @ 151, 5.60 @ 123(SOLD)

67 Bonneville ragtop

74 Firebird - 455, e heads, TK0600 in process
  #10  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:39 AM
Scott65's Avatar
Scott65 Scott65 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,991
Default

I'll have to look into that and see if it will fit my sensor. Might make plumbing easier.

__________________
'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31
  #11  
Old 09-18-2019, 12:15 PM
Chief of the 60's Chief of the 60's is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: On the Rez
Posts: 3,233
Default

You should be testing the C2H5OH prior to putting it in your tank.

  #12  
Old 09-18-2019, 12:35 PM
Scott65's Avatar
Scott65 Scott65 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,991
Default

It's purpose isn't for testing. It's for the ecu to adjust fueling, whatever the content.

__________________
'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31
  #13  
Old 09-18-2019, 01:41 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 31,294
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott65 View Post
It's purpose isn't for testing. It's for the ecu to adjust fueling, whatever the content.
Which is what the newer Vehicles do automatically with their computers.

Tom V.

__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
  #14  
Old 09-18-2019, 03:12 PM
Hooter's Avatar
Hooter Hooter is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Springfield, IL
Posts: 3,868
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott65 View Post
I'll have to look into that and see if it will fit my sensor. Might make plumbing easier.
This set up takes the factory GM type sensor. I think Continental is the brand. I have already purchased this set up, but not the sensor yet.

__________________
65 Lemans Street Car - 521, T400, 3.70 9". 10.13 @ 135. 3770 lbs. Drag Week ‘14, ‘15, ‘17

63 Lemans Race Car- 8.81 @ 151, 5.60 @ 123(SOLD)

67 Bonneville ragtop

74 Firebird - 455, e heads, TK0600 in process
  #15  
Old 09-18-2019, 03:20 PM
Scott65's Avatar
Scott65 Scott65 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,991
Default

I have the sensor, but no plumbing... between the two of us we could make it...

__________________
'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31
  #16  
Old 09-22-2019, 07:05 PM
LPI's Avatar
LPI LPI is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 269
Default GM Flex Fuel sensor & Russell tube adapter fittings

Here is a picture of a Holley EFI regulator with the attached GM flex fuel sensor.

We used the Russell 644133 tube to AN adapters, worked great. We added a -8 AN gauge port adapter on the return line temporarily with a gauge (0-20 psi) to see if we had any type of residual back pressure, there was none.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	GM flex fuel sensor.jpg
Views:	214
Size:	91.0 KB
ID:	520716  

__________________
Holy cow Tom that's a dirt road...

www.luhnperformance.com
  #17  
Old 09-22-2019, 07:14 PM
Scott65's Avatar
Scott65 Scott65 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,991
Default

Good to know. What pump was this measured with?

__________________
'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31
  #18  
Old 09-23-2019, 08:55 PM
LPI's Avatar
LPI LPI is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 269
Default

A large Magnafuel external mount pump, 750 series.

__________________
Holy cow Tom that's a dirt road...

www.luhnperformance.com
  #19  
Old 09-23-2019, 09:03 PM
Scott65's Avatar
Scott65 Scott65 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,991
Default

Good to know. I guess it wouldn't choke my 525... Thanks for the info!

__________________
'65 Tempest 467 3650# 11.30@120.31
  #20  
Old 06-20-2023, 11:56 PM
R 70 Judge's Avatar
R 70 Judge R 70 Judge is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 2,691
Default

I’m using the Motion Raceworks billet dual feed kit. Very nice piece. It can be used on the supply line or return line without restriction. I have mine on a -8 ptfe return. Makes for an easy install.

https://www.motionraceworks.com/prod...n-6an-8an-10an
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4435.jpg
Views:	58
Size:	85.1 KB
ID:	614560   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4436.jpg
Views:	56
Size:	25.5 KB
ID:	614561   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4437.jpg
Views:	50
Size:	20.4 KB
ID:	614562  

__________________
James
1970 Trans Am

Spotts Built 484" IA2, Highports, EFI Northwind
Terminator X sequential EFI fabrication and suspension by
https://www.funkhouserracecars.com/
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:19 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017