#41  
Old 04-30-2021, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom s View Post
I think them staying with 3 1/4 mains was the real draw back!Tom
^X2^ !



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  #42  
Old 05-01-2021, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by johnta1 View Post
The DOHC block didn't need a cam in the middle of block, so the lifter area was solid across.
(probably didn't need a lifter valley pan either)

Probably no splitting that block.


LMAO - oh yeh - it was wild ass guess b/c I had no clue.

  #43  
Old 05-01-2021, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnta1 View Post
The DOHC block didn't need a cam in the middle of block, so the lifter area was solid across.
(probably didn't need a lifter valley pan either)

Probably no splitting that block.
I guess Malcolm wanted a real engine vs a Mock-up engine which is why the engine in the car that GM Gave him (when he retired) had a timing chain that drove a "camshaft" (no lobes) that drove a oil pump and a factory distributor and ignition system.
If you look at some of the pictures of the engine and the car you can clearly see the DOHC camshaft system used the "front" drive system on that engine, not the "rear" drive system of some other engines. Even those rear drive set-ups had to have a way to drive the oil pump.

Tom V.
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Old 05-01-2021, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vaught View Post
I guess Malcolm wanted a real engine vs a Mock-up engine which is why the engine in the car that GM Gave him (when he retired) had a timing chain that drove a "camshaft" (no lobes) that drove a oil pump and a factory distributor and ignition system.
If you look at some of the pictures of the engine and the car you can clearly see the DOHC camshaft system used the "front" drive system on that engine, not the "rear" drive system of some other engines. Even those rear drive set-ups had to have a way to drive the oil pump.

Tom V.
Tom,
While the engine pictured does have 2 cams it is still a SOHC engine. Just like the FORD SOHC Hemi / FE engine was.

Stan

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  #45  
Old 05-01-2021, 02:48 PM
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Agree, Malcolms was a single overhead camshaft deal.
But it had a camshaft and a distributor, which was my point.
Also of ALL of the Concept Engines there was only one DOHC engine, period.
All the rerst were SOHC engines.

Some of the other Concept engines did not have a visible way to fire an ignition system or drive a oil pump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnta1 View Post
The DOHC block didn't need a cam in the middle of block, so the lifter area was solid across.
(probably didn't need a lifter valley pan either)

Probably no splitting that block.
Probably would not split a SOHC Block either but you would still have to come up with a way to time an ignition system to make the engine run and supply oil to the engine.


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Old 05-01-2021, 04:53 PM
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Tom,
Since I never had to work on my 4.6l SOHC engine. How did FORD handle the oil pump? I know how they handled no distributor, as I had to change a number of coils that went bad.

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  #47  
Old 05-01-2021, 05:26 PM
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The oil pump was changed from a "conventional" Oil Pump to a crankshaft to the pump in the pictures below.
G-Rotor type pump I believe is the design name of the pump. Ford had issues with the ignition coil people SEVERAL times, unfortunately. Kind of like my Pontiac HEI Distributor Modules that failed on me 5 times in my 1978 Trans Am.

Some Pontiac blocks did have the provision for the cam driven rear location in the block (G-Rotor type pump).

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  #48  
Old 05-01-2021, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
The DOHC block didn't need a cam in the middle of block, so the lifter area was solid across.
(probably didn't need a lifter valley pan either)

I guess I should have worded it differently, no Useable camshaft in the factory location that used lifters and pushrods.




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  #49  
Old 05-01-2021, 06:53 PM
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Screwed it up again, John. The part is very use-able, just used for a different task in this case. We have camshafts that drive high pressure fuel pumps for our fuel injection engines too. You are a smart guy, pay attention, LOL.

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Old 05-01-2021, 07:46 PM
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Nope, read it again?
No lifters on that shaft.
No pushrods to those missing lifters either.


I knew the shaft was needed to run the oil pump and distributor, just has no lobes for any valves/pushrods. I would say most here knew it also.



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  #51  
Old 05-01-2021, 08:21 PM
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John, Now you are trying to bail yourself out of a hole you dug. That's funny.

Next you will be saying that "you did not need the camshaft on Malcolm's engine" even though
Malcolm's engine had Tri-Power Carburetors and a Fuel Pump was required to feed those carbs.

Weak John. THINK. You are supposed to be a Pontiac Engine expert.

Tom V.

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  #52  
Old 05-01-2021, 08:51 PM
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Tom,
Quit stating sh_t!
It’s a good thread don’t have another thread shut down.


GTO George

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Old 05-01-2021, 09:02 PM
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No sense have any conversation about a 1 only engine or Ford blocks in the thread.JMHO,Tom

  #54  
Old 05-01-2021, 11:18 PM
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Agree, A One of a kind Dual Overhead camshaft engine that probably was never fired in its history, Just a engineering concept, conversation was misplaced.

If John wants to start a thread about a one of a kind Dual Overhead Camshaft Pontiac Engine, go for it.

I saw the Arnie Block with the splayed caps back in the 1994/1995 time period.
Were you aware of the splayed cap blocks that far back Tom S? You have been
around the engines and talked to Fritz V apparently often. Did Mickey ever have one?

Tom V.

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  #55  
Old 05-02-2021, 07:08 AM
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McKellar and DeLorean must have had a great relationship together in PMD engine engineering.

McKellar had the cam lobe profiles sorted out while DeLorean had the sustained RPM cam followers sorted out. That SOHC V8 development must have had huge internal backing.

  #56  
Old 05-02-2021, 09:37 AM
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paper work with this block from engineering was august 1967.Bob Lussier was the group leader.Never seen a splayed block in the early 60s.M/T was into ford in 64.Tom

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Old 05-02-2021, 10:47 AM
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The timeline for the block matches similar time lines for Research Projects from other companies.

Tom V.

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  #58  
Old 05-02-2021, 04:40 PM
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Pics of the Pontiac 389 DOHC and 421 SOHC engines and the rear belt driven 428CI 3-valve head.
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Old 05-02-2021, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PontiacJim1959 View Post
Pics of the Pontiac DOHC and SOHC engines and the 3-valve head.
More photos of the SOHC engine. Head was designed for the 428CI engine
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Old 05-02-2021, 05:11 PM
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Jim,take a close look at that middle pic of the 3 valve engine.The intake was on there for a mag pic.No way the ports line up with the intake valves.That had been pointed out before.Tom

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