[bird72]

Part of what you guys are lamenting is your youth or gone one

Easy to forget that in 69-73 when I was in high school, the parking lot had cool cars, but maybe 10%. I also remember 4 door green Furies, bat winged old 50's cars of various makes, borrowed family station wagons, and 4 door Darts. My school wasn't rows of Super Sports and Goats, they were mixed in the sea of regular cars.

I wonder if in 1972 there were old guys all depressed because the high school parking lots just don't have those cool T Buckets in them like the good ole days...……….

The up side is these old Poncho's are getting mighty unusual on the streets, and THAT is fun.

[GT182]

Originally Posted by 71GP76TA

That sounds like a scumbag thing to do.....

Yeah it is but it's been done in many States for years. Harrisburg, PA had TAs and Z 28s out on I-81 back in the 80s. I had one try to get me to race with him one time with my 79 Formula. I knew what was going on and just gave him a wave, and stayed at the speed limit. He took off and went looking for another victim. New York Sate did it too with mustangs back then.

I imagine NC does it too, like any other State.

[kmeyer54]

Chiming in from the perspective of a 21 year old guy with family members who aren't interested in cars:

I can see both sides of this debate. I love my Catalina and I've had an interest in old cars for a long time. If I hadn't wrecked my F-150 in December, it would've been years before I could've even considered buying an old car, and I didn't pay a dime for that truck. My grandparents sold their land and bought new vehicles, so my grandfather passed his truck down to me. Truthfully, I'd still rather have the truck due to sentimental value, but I used the insurance money to fix up my '98 Saturn so that it would be mechanically sound to continue to use as a daily driver and found my Catalina by pure luck for about half its actual value. Had any one of those events not happened, I wouldn't be on this forum. Old cars just aren't affordable to younger people today. The "ricer" Honda's are today's equivalent of your muscle cars that you bought cheap and fixed up the best you could. The interest in cars is there, but since they can't be had at a reasonable price without needing thousands of dollars and months of work these guys have turned to cars that are both cheap and common. Another issue is that a lot of parents just don't raise their kids to value cars these days. My parents drive their four-wheel appliances happily and thought I had lost my mind when I bought my Catalina. Even my grandfather, who knows cars and has some interest, tried like hell to talk me out of buying the car. I know he wanted to change his tune when he saw the car firsthand, but he resisted my offer for a test drive. When I was buying my first car, I was limited to 4-cylinder sedans and even then most of those were shot down. My mom eventually wound up taking it upon herself to go to a shady car lot and buy a 2006 Dodge Stratus with my money, which (not surprisingly) was a huge mistake.

On the other hand, I know the interest is there in a lot of younger people. I suspect that as they are able to get into higher-paying jobs more and more of them will start buying older cars. There is also the issue of student loans, which aren't what they used to be. I spent two years at a lower-priced state university and have $10,000 in student loans to show for it, even with a large amount of money saved up by my other grandparents to help me out. This leaves almost anyone with a degree and a middle-class family to spend a lot of their "extra" funds paying off student loans for large parts of their lives after graduation.

Either way, I think the hobby will make it, although maybe not in the form it exists in today.

[prostreet64]

54, those are some good observations. When I was 21 back in 1973 I was driving around in my bother's 67 GTO and close to finishing up my degree at U of Fla. Having grown up during the height of the muscle car era I was well immersed in the whole scene; had friends with SS Chevelles, Hemi Cudas, other GTOs and the like. But then I got married in 1977 and started a family which meant a whole new direction. My brother sold the Goat and I was in no position to replace it. But I never lost the connection to my past and when my son turned 16 in 1998, and started to look for his first ride he showed an interest in late 60s or early 70s muscle cars. That was in large measure the result of my keeping the interest up with car mags, classic car shows, etc. The 69 Bird was his first car and he still has it today. Not his daily driver, but a street/strip car that he loves to drive and will probably hold onto for ever. It really is a matter of passing the torch so to speak. At some point I will probably pass my 79 Trans Am along to my grandson, who is 12 right now and if he gets the car he will 'earn' it.

[JSPONT]

54 I get get it. The muscle cars were cheap when I was in high school. I don't mind the Honda/ rice cars if they are turbo'd and fast. There is not one of those cars in the High School lot in my town. I would like to see anyone "hot rodding" any car. Guess where I live there is no interest. went to a car hang out the other night. There were some young kids with Corollas, turbo charged RX7 ( I love them), some 3rd gen stuff which can be had cheap. I just don't see as many kids interested in the hobby near me. Seems like an older crowd at the hang outs.
I talked to the young guys, it was cool to see and feel there excitement, guess it gives me a little hope.

[kmeyer54]

In my area, the young guys and the older guys seem to be two very separate groups for the most part. There is a meet in a Target parking lot near my work that sees a huge assortment of ricers and other similar custom cars, but when I cruised my Catalina through on my lunch break one night it was the only classic in a group of 50+ cars. It still very noticeably turned heads, but it wasn't something most of those guys wanted or could afford. I suspect a lot of those guys had about what I originally paid for my car ($5500) put into their cars total including purchase price and mods. I haven't had a chance to make it out to any of the local cars and coffee meets in town yet due to the Catalina being down, but I'm fully anticipating seeing a lot more of the older guys with classics or high-end new cars at those meets. It could also be a regional thing. There is definitely a difference in the local car culture just between the area I work in (a lower-income area) when compared to the area I live in (more lower middle-class and higher). I'm sure that also varies widely by city and state. In Houston the local car culture is largely centered around those asinine wire wheels that stick out a good foot from the center as opposed to the ricers I see locally.

On an unrelated note, I think the days of patriotic loyalty to American brands is long over. My generation remembers GM for the bailout that killed our beloved Pontiacs as well as Saturn and the myriad quality issues they had both before and after the bailout. It doesn't help that they've moved production almost completely out of the US, which cuts back family brand loyalty due to family members working at a plant and reasoning along those lines. Toyota pickups are a big deal even here in Central Texas because many if not all of the Tundra's are assembled at a plant right here in San Antonio. Few domestic brands can honestly boast about where their assembly takes place at this point.

[Fullsize455]

I went to high school from '97-2000. There were a fair number of muscle-era classics in the parking lot, but few actual muscle cars. Even by then the prices were high enough where the average high school kid just couldn't afford anything cool. Having said that, there were 5.0L Mustangs and third generation F-bodies galore.. oh my damn were there 5.0s at my high school! I knew at least 5-6 kids with well faster than stock 5.0s, and a few fast F-bodies as well. I bought my first car - a '65 Galaxie - from a kid a year older than me. I saw it sitting in the student lot one day after school and I stood by it and waited forever until the owner finally showed up. I asked if he wanted to sell it, he said no, and for two years I pestered him until he was more or less forced to sell it so he could move away for college. This spawned a life-long friendship, where we have bought and sold each other cars, made many a junkyard trip, and we both have endless car stories of all manners that we can recount together. He was one of maybe 20-30 kids that I could think of that daily drove pre-smog classics to school most days. There were more still that had nice muscle cars and such in their family, that they would bring out every year for the car show on the school quad.

Then there were lots more kids who had newer muscle and fast cars.. the aforementioned 5.0s and F-bodies, Thunderbird Turbo Coupes and other turbo Fords from the '80s, Thunderbird Supercoupes, turbo Regals and such, etc etc.. The newer stuff isn't my flavor so much, but there was a lot of it spread around in different forms. Hell, now that I'm thinking about it, there was a turbo Volvo that made fools out of a number of the other guys, and even a turbo Chrysler minivan known for doing handsome burnouts in the Jack In The Box parking lot.

After high school, I still hung out a lot at the typical gathering places around town on Friday/Saturday nights, where impromptu car shows of sorts would just pop up out of nowhere. A couple guys would show up, throw some revs and make their presence known, then more people would just show up. There was particular group of kids who were 2-3 grades behind me that were really into it. These guys all had money to spend, and they had some damn nice cars by any standard, let alone being high school kids. Off the top of my head, there was one kid who first had a very nicely built '66 Mustang, then sold that and bought a '64 Impala that within a few months was equally badass. Another kid had a '56 Cadillac, before trading it for a '66 GTO. And on and on and on. The hobby was very much alive and well when I was in high school and shortly thereafter.

It is certainly very different today than it was 20-30-40 years ago. The cars have definitely changed, and the people have as well. That's only natural. There is definitely a decline in overall interest in cars amongst young people now, what with the smartphone generation just not having the interest to go out and hang out with their friends. They can look at all their friend's pictures on facebook and whatnot, so they don't even have to go out to "hang out" with them.

But overall? No, the hobby isn't dying. Car shows are as popular as ever, and the Goodguys are charging as much as ever for admission and parking and concessions and all that and they still pack events. Hot August Nights in Reno last year was as big as it has ever been, according to a bunch of people I talked to who have been going since forever. I'm not worried about it. And as for prices going up and killing the hobby, I don't see it, as prices will naturally come back down as necessary if/when people actually want to sell their cars to move on to something else or whatever. If the next generation isn't willing to pay as much, prices will eventually come down accordingly to accomodate.

[Bobalong]

Pulled up to a stop sign and while I was waiting on cross traffic two little boys on their bicycles
had stopped and were making a open mouth funny face and said "Hey mister nice car"

Feels good that even a couple of 5-6-7 yr old kids think a 70 GTO is cool, even if they have no
clue what it is .

[Radman]

I don't think it is dying. Just give the younger crowd the time to have the finances for the big toys. I spent many years drooling at the classic cars before I could afford to buy and restore one. Last weekend I spent all of Monday helping a 17 year old work on his grandfathers 1948 Chevrolet Fleet liner. he wants to make it a daily driver. He is working on the important mechanical stuff as he has the money to do so.

[bluebird455]

I think in some ways it is. but for different reasons than most think.

I don't see the same passion for muscle cars as we had, understandable in some ways since there are much fewer choices nowadays, whether new or old due to prices and availability(Old).
Too many great muscle cars are hardly seen anymore, stuck in collections and museums cause they are "too valuable to drive and enjoy"!

What I've really noticed over the last 10 or so years that's bothersome, is the different culture at so called Classic Car Shows. you have all the guys with Classic/Muscle cars and then the cars that are just cars, nothing else, some are just a common 4 door sedan with big tires/chrome rims, parking right beside them.
Non Classic cars outnumber Classics 4 to 1 in some shows.
I always hear " I came to see classic cars, not this new ones", "I can see those anywhere"!
Could easily be fixed by Having year specific shows.

[Chief of the 60's]

Is it really "dying"?

There are dozens of factors and many have been touched upon.

Some of it has to do with the fact that there are not too many current models to get excited about.

Some of it has to do with the prices of what is out there. Some of the prices are completely out of proportion courtesy of TV commandos watching too much Barrett-Jackson. I cannot tell you how many $15,000.00 - $25,000.00 '65 GTO's I looked at in the past 6 months that were priced at $35,000.00 - $42,000.00. If a newcomer is interested in getting into the collector car world many times ridiculous prices deter them from even getting their feet wet.

Some of it has to do with the fact that a lot of these cars are owned by people in their mid 60's and older or they have died altogether.

Some of it has to do with some of the pompous asses that own these cars that will look down on anybody, including the younger crowd, because they "think" they are better than them. These are the very people that may have interest but the attitudes of these car owners chase these people away.

On the flip side, I do see some younger people finding passion in vehicles many have dismissed. 4 doors, wagons, pickups and oddball vehicles have gained a following amongst the novice and younger crowds due to there affordablity. You will not see them too often at your local car show or cruise night because they remember the pompous asses that thumbed their noses at them in the past. So they just hang with the "normal" poor folk like themselves.

Think about it, when was the last time you took interest and spoke to the owner of a Rat Rod, a wagon, a 4 door Chevy II, a Corvair, a Falcon, a Neon R/T, an Omni GLH or even a Fiero? Me, I do it all the time. As a matter of fact, I rarely talk to anyone with a GTO or T/A anymore unless they are buying parts or we are on the same page with these cars.