[Steve C.]

For conversation and concerning only the four intake lobes I listed....

Knowing the value of additional valve lift personally if given the choice between a cam using the same lobe as the Old Faithful and the QXI lobe I think you know which one I'd go with. That would be the QXI on the intake side. Then I would evaluate the exhaust lobe to be used based on the cylinder heads intake-to-exhaust ratio and cars exhaust system in use. And since it would be a custom cam I could pick what ever lobe separation desired.


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[Steve C.]

Sharing a related post from another Pontiac website. And note his comments related to valve lift and note his use of custom cams rather that a shelf cam with a ginchy name....

Topic: What are the defining factors to choosing the right cam?

For me:

* Flow characteristics of the heads, to determine lift - It is silly to use a .450" lift on heads that flow well past .600". It is also silly, IMHO, to use high lift cams with heads (such as stock D-ports) that gain virtually no flow past .400" lift.

* Performance goals of the owner - what RPM range do you need most power? People often chase some arbitrary "horsepower" number, and end up sacrificing a lot of lower RPM torque in order to gain a little of upper RPM HP.

To me, the camshaft is the conductor of the performance. It should be selected LAST, and be designed to make the other parts work in harmony. There is no Magic-Cam that works best for everything. I've had about 100 cams custom ground over the last few years, and have only used a duplicate of a previous grind maybe 3 or 4 times.

This from Lee Atkinson



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[nmoreilly]

Originally Posted by 64gp4spd

Thank You for all the suggestions. The car will be 95% street driven with occasional trip to the track.
I like all the characteristics mentioned about the OF cam.
I had a Crower 255/261 @.050 with 108LSA Solid Cam in a 421 that was in the car previously
Ran great but had a lot of overlap and as a result always smelled like exhaust fumes after
driving it.
Thanks Again for the input

Rich

Just curious, what cam did you end up going with ? That Crower cam you had in the 421 seems interesting, can you give other details on that build ?

[64gp4spd]

Hi. Ended up using the Old Faithful Hydraulic Roller on a 112LSA with 1:65 rockers
Motor is in the car but not running yet. Just on the start up stand prior to install

The 421 had the Crower Cam I mentioned with ported 670 heads and 9,4 to 1
Compression, Torker 2 with 1 inch open spacer and HOLLEY 950HP
Block was .060 over

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Knowing the value of additional valve lift personally if given the choice between a cam using the same lobe as the Old Faithful and the QXI lobe I think you know which one I'd go with. That would be the QXI on the intake side. Then I would evaluate the exhaust lobe to be used based on the cylinder heads intake-to-exhaust ratio and cars exhaust system in use. And since it would be a custom cam I could pick what ever lobe separation desired.

Another member asked me about that very thing a few weeks ago. QXI is the lighter lobe trace.

[Steve C.]

But the QXI lobes don't have a ginchy name applied to them


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[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

But the QXI lobes don't have a ginchy name applied to them

Sounding like a Ford or Chevy guy there Steve Everything is custom with them.

[Steve C.]

A cam with a gincy name sells well

I wonder how Ken came up with the name "Butcher Special" .

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[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

A cam with a gincy name sells well

I wonder how Ken came up with the name "Butcher Special" .

.

LOL The names are kinda funny

That "Butcher Special" really doesn't look all that special. Typical Comp 230-236 cam with very small (for a roller) flat tappet sized lobes, and it's just ground on a 112 rather than their typical 110.

[Murf]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

LOL The names are kinda funny

That "Butcher Special" really doesn't look all that special. Typical Comp 230-236 cam with very small (for a roller) flat tappet sized lobes, and it's just ground on a 112 rather than their typical 110.

He had it on 110 also. There seems to be more than one version. IIRC, Butcher was the last name of the guy he originally spec it for. I believe he was on this forum, maybe still is.

Murf


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[77 TRASHCAN]

I think he posts some in the big car section. I believe his name is Jim Butcher. Seemed like he has a 65, full size............maybe.......

[Cliff R]

Fancy names for camshafts (or most anything else related to this hobby) are thrown in with the propaganda associated with aftermarket parts to help sell them. It's been that way since I got into the hobby nearly 50 years ago. Back in the early days none of us really knew if any of the parts we were buying actually worked better than what was being replaced, but it was pretty cool to put the stickers in your window to show off your stuff in the High School parking lot.

EVERYONE I ever knew that bought a small block Chevy powered vehicle immediately removed the excellent factory 4bbl intake and carb and stuck some aftermarket set-up on there. Most of the poor kids did the Edelbrock and 1850 600cfm Holley which took 150cfm out of the equation over the factory carb. But it was cool to burn every ones eyes who stood behind the car in the parking lot on Friday night after the football game! If for any reason the engine came out it for sure got a POS Zoom "double roller" timing set and a high volume/high pressure (power robbing) oil pump at the same time. A few would get "camel back" or "double hump" heads as well, then no place to bolt up your accessories unless your vehicle was made prior to about 1968. Aside from the smaller combustion chamber heads none of that stuff did much if not hurt engine power but it's just what was done back then, and despite it being 2020 with all this excellent information at your fingertips via the Internet I still see folks doing the same stupid chit today when they build their new engines.

I was lucky, and just by chance because I grew up a dirt-poor farm boy and didn't have the money for such things so I found myself using and modifying factory parts. Once in a while I'd do some horse-trading and come up with a decent second hand 1850 Holley or even better a 3310 750 vacuum carb or 4781 850 DP carb.

Piece by piece I'd start swapping out parts and since I was racing my 440 powered Roadrunner on weekends I would get to see how much further I could put black marks on the street all week and how much quicker (or slower) it ran at the track on weekends with slicks. Kind of interesting how NOTHING has changed much in all these years and at least 2/3rds if not more of the aftermarket parts I tested felt stronger on the street and ran SLOWER at the track with good traction!

I still remember the Crane "Fireball" cam I installed one weekend and ran the car all week then raced it the next Friday night. I was so certain that it would KILL the factory Mopar cam by at least a full second in the 1/4 mile. Instead my heart sank when I picked up my time slip as it SLOWED down a couple of tenths and lost some MPH over the excellent factory camshaft. This prompted me to break into my graduation fund and buy a Direct Connection P parts camshaft instead, which proved to be a very good move as the car picked up a bit everyplace, but not nearly what I had hoped for.

These days cam manufacturers use all sorts of neat works or phrases for their cams (X-Treme Energy, Thumper, Thump ya Mutha, Voodoo, etc, etc) and follow that with all sort of promises of leaping taller buildings and walking on more water than what you are replacing, etc. From what I've seen not much of it is true but for sure since most grind their cams on tight LSA's you'll have a nice "lope" at idle and you can tell everyone at the Dairy Queen car cruise that you are now running 10's instead of the 14's that you did before the cam swap!.......LOL.......Cliff

[PDC]

Cliff - your descriptions of speed part stickers crowding the windows of the cars in the high school parking lot, wet - stinky ‘muscle car’ idle in the parking lot after the Friday night football game, and spending hours with your buddies inadvertently slowing your car down with ‘go-fast’ parts literally brought me right back to high school. Your posts are always filled with valuable information for anyone willing to read them - but your posts are a lot of fun, too. Thank You!

[GTOLou]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

I would go no smaller than the OF grind and install it at 109-110ICL. Same basic combo I have, mine is closer to 11.3 to 1 compression and using the OF cam on a 112LSA. It's been flawless now since 2009 on a steady diet of pump gas, even runs OK on 87 octane w/o pinging but it will "run-on" once in a while on a really hot summer day fully heat soaked so I typically keep 91-93 octane in it. The ICL came in at 109.5 so I just left it there and glad I did. Idles nearly dead smooth with just a hint or "attitude". Makes 13.5" vacuum at 700rpm's with only 10 degrees initial timing.

Compression is your friend with these things and allows for bigger cams with less negatives. However a small cam and high compression can get you into trouble in a hurry and little cams aren't going to take advantage of 310cfm head flow either......FWIW......Cliff

Interesting - I just put in an original OF - am pretty sure Dave called for 108ICL. Was able to change my timing set in 2 degree increments. Had option of either 107 vs 109 and I went w/ 107.

Anyway - my old cam failed on low end power (76 TA/474 - 3.23 gears and ST10) and the OF at 107 is a torque monster. I love it. Street car - shift by 5500 or so. Very much recommend that cam.

[ErikW]

Can't beat the OF in a 455. It's a beast and sounds amazing. Wife's 71 TA 455 with eddy heads and 4l80e with 3.08's runs 11.60's @ 3950lbs. My 66 Lemans 461 with Kaufman d-ports @ 3900lbs runs 12.00. Your going to love it.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by ErikW

Can't beat the OF in a 455. It's a beast and sounds amazing. Wife's 71 TA 455 with eddy heads and 4l80e with 3.08's runs 11.60's @ 3950lbs. My 66 Lemans 461 with Kaufman d-ports @ 3900lbs runs 12.00. Your going to love it.

Its also a very smooth street cam. Everybody always talks about the performance of the cam...but the street manners are great.

[nmoreilly]

I think very difficult to go wrong with any of the SD HR cams assuming consistent with rest of the build. I have the equivalent of the RP in my 469 RA IV with mildly ported 722 heads 9.50:1 CR M21, 3.90 rear. A little bit unhappy below 1700/1800 RPM - could use a little more CR - but above there, phenomenal throttle response, unlimited torque.

[Tim Corcoran]

The Old Faithful cam is a proven performer but I am not one to follow the pack. I think The Voodoo cams are frequently overlooked as as Paul Carter has proven they out perform the competition. The Voodoo series was developed by Lunati with Harold Berkshire as the cam designer hired by Lunati. These cams were developed in direct competition with the Comp XE cams but the Voodoo cams are better and don't have the harshness on the valvetrain as the XE cams do.

[Formulajones]

Agree Tim, I've used a few of the Harold cams recently, with custom Voodoo lobes spec'd from Paul C, and they flat out work!!
Paul also has newer designed lobes that Harold was working on before he passed, that as far as I'm aware, no one else has.

[Skip Fix]

Hard to beat Harold's lobes!