[joegpho]

Originally Posted by joegpho

Hmmn - is the manual steering/drum brake car Limelight Green with the white (parchment) vinyl interior and white vinyl top?

Could it be that A/C mandated power steering - something with the pulleys? I'm just trying to think it through. My thinking is that p/s was left off somehow but A/C was ordered...guessing, though.

I'll post the PHS on the scrapped 3spd HO my Dad had - it definitely had MANUAL steering!

Bob - you've answered my question - you do have the car I was thinking of.

From what I have studied power brakes with front discs were standard effective 1/1/69.

[69GP428HO4SP]

Grant,
Yes the car from the last invoice does have power disc brakes, something that makes me think it was an original manual steering car was when I changed the power steering pump all the brackets when not correct for a power steering car.
Bob

[johnta1]

This is from a PMD Production Report:



With 99.7% having PS, I'd say most of these had power steering?

[428ho4spd]

So out of the 112,486 total production... that means only 337 GP's had manual steering in 1969... not many.

[muscle_collector]

that's amazing . like I posted earlier, out of hundreds I have owned / parted out and looked at I have never ran across one. and actually before this thread I probably always assumed it was part of the gp package from 69 and newer.

[69GP428HO4SP]

Some times wish I had power steering on my GP, especially when trying to park at a car show. It is nice not having to deal with leaky pumps, hoses and the extra belt.

[muscle_collector]

anyone know are the ones without ps predominately stick cars????

[428ho4spd]

Originally Posted by 69GP428HO4SP

Some times wish I had power steering on my GP, especially when trying to park at a car show. It is nice not having to deal with leaky pumps, hoses and the extra belt.

Bob, I remember driving my friend's '69 SJ with no p/s back in the early 80's and it was a factory a/c, 4-speed car... talk about a work out!

[428ho4spd]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

anyone know are the ones without ps predominately stick cars????

Yes, that seems to be the pattern from what I've seen.

[north]

The do it yourself market segment!

They are extinct today.

[brucee70]

Originally Posted by 428ho4spd

I'm curious if there are other '69 GP owners that show NO power steering listed on their PHS invoice, but their car came with p/s from new? My GP is this way and the original owner said that it always had p/s. The date code on the gear box fits the car's build date as well. Thinking that it may have been missed when invoiced?

Grant

Grant ...I went upstairs and grabbed my PHS ...P/S is listed. Invoice date is 12/20/68. Interesting that when my friend Rocky Boyles bought this car in 1989 he got the PHS stuff from Fred Simmons thru word of mouth ...Fred still worked at Pontiac and hand wrote notes on the build sheet copy. Adding pictures ...I haven't opened this book with all my GP documents in a long time!

Bruce

[north]

Originally Posted by brucee70

Grant ...I went upstairs and grabbed my PHS ...P/S is listed. Invoice date is 12/20/68. Interesting that when my friend Rocky Boyles bought this car in 1989 he got the PHS stuff from Fred Simmons thru word of mouth ...Fred still worked at Pontiac and hand wrote notes on the build sheet copy. Adding pictures ...I haven't opened this book with all my GP documents in a long time!

Bruce

Too bad it is an export invoice, I've been trying to find out how much gauges and dash tach cost on an SJ (already came with clock and gauges). There must have been a discounted price.

[brucee70]

Originally Posted by north

Too bad it is an export invoice, I've been trying to find out how much gauges and dash tach cost on an SJ (already came with clock and gauges). There must have been a discounted price.

My 69 Options Price list dated Sept 26, 1968 lists:

Sales code 484 - Rally Gauge Cluster & Clock at 31.60
Sales code 444 - Rally Gauge Cluster and IP Tach at 84.25

[428ho4spd]

Originally Posted by brucee70

Grant ...I went upstairs and grabbed my PHS ...P/S is listed. Invoice date is 12/20/68. Interesting that when my friend Rocky Boyles bought this car in 1989 he got the PHS stuff from Fred Simmons thru word of mouth ...Fred still worked at Pontiac and hand wrote notes on the build sheet copy. Adding pictures ...I haven't opened this book with all my GP documents in a long time!

Bruce

Bruce... cool stuff, thanks for posting! I remember when you could just call Pontiac customer service with your VIN and get the invoice mailed to you at no cost, I did this with a few cars I owned over the years back then. The only draw back was that they blacked-out all the the pricing info.

Back to the power steering mystery... I will be dropping the gas tank on this car to replace the tank sending unit sometime later this year and hope to find the original build order to verify if it was built with p/s or not.

Grant

[north]

Thanks Bruce, but what I meant is if you had a SJ (which included gauges already) did they still charge you the full $84.26 or was the price reduced to reflect that the SJ meant that the gauges had already in effect been paid for so you only pay for the differential between the clock and the tach ($28.71 on GTO, LeMans or Firebird).

This logic is seen in the price of Rallye gauges and clock and a GP was $18.95 cheaper than on a GTO because a GP came with a clock as standard equipment. However they did not the same with the gauges and tach, which were the same price as a GTO despite the clock being standard in the GP.

GP option pricing was interesting, some options were priced the same as in other cars but some were more expensive. Sometimes it made sense (power windows were mounted in pockets rather than just onto the door panel or variable ratio power steering versus GTO's regular PS) but other times there was no justification such as power disc brakes which were identical.

[428ho4spd]

Originally Posted by north

Too bad it is an export invoice, I've been trying to find out how much gauges and dash tach cost on an SJ (already came with clock and gauges). There must have been a discounted price.

John, here's an invoice from a '69 SJ I owned in the mid 90's that came with the tach option.

Grant

[north]

Interesting, a rip off when you think of it, it was cheaper to get a hood tach than a dash tach on an SJ!

I just read through this thread from the beginning and noticed that we also discussed the price change of the HO engine (price was cut $9.48 in about November 68 from $186.42 to 176.94). I also looked at a bunch of 69 GP PHS's and noticed that the price of the regular 428 (in J's) was cut by the same $9.48.

Apart from a price cut on all optional tires on April 1st this is the only mid year change in option pricing I am aware of. (not counting the Jan 1st inclusion of headrests which were not really optional before that anyway.)

[north]

I looked at my 69 GP PHS's (I only have 10) and noticed that the latest car with the higher engine price (428 or 428 HO in J cars) is nov 14 and I have one on Dec 3rd with the lower price. So they probably made the change Dec 1st since all price changes I have ever seen were always on the 1st of a month.

But I have later SJ's with the 428HO option and the HO price ($119.01) did not go down.