[Engine-Ear]

Hey guys,

I finally took possession of a '69 Model J that was in my late friend's collection... A bit about the car: it is a verdoro green (aren't they ALL?), black comfort weave interior, non-A/C, manual windows, P/S P/B, 350 hp 400, THREE speed stick, peg leg car.

Drove it home about 40 miles...man this thing pulls hard and the 1-2 shifter 'throw' is surprisingly short.

So, I have a few questions for ya...

1) given the above info, what is the probable rear end ratio? (PHS doesn't specify)

2) did ALL '69s come with the rear window defroster? if not, how common is this?

3) what two letter code will be on the rallye II rim for this car?

4) the car has no tach / gauges ... I am inclined to add gauges and a hood tach. Is it wrong?

5) the wiring is full of surprises... step on the brake and the front parking lites come on; turn on the headlites and the brite indicator is on when it's in low-beam mode; blinkers >pffft!< yeah, right! Any common electrical gremlins with these cars that I use as a staring point for sleuthing out these undocumented 'features'?

6) the sticky rubber coated steering wheel has to GO. What wood wheel is correct for this? Anyone have a used original (imperfect is OK) available for a good price?

Oh, as any good newbie should, I'll post some pics soon...

[Lloyd-TX]

Originally Posted by Engine-Ear

Hey guys,

I finally took possession of a '69 Model J that was in my late friend's collection... A bit about the car: it is a verdoro green (aren't they ALL?), black comfort weave interior, non-A/C, manual windows, P/S P/B, 350 hp 400, THREE speed stick, peg leg car.

Drove it home about 40 miles...man this thing pulls hard and the 1-2 shifter 'throw' is surprisingly short.

So, I have a few questions for ya...

1) given the above info, what is the probable rear end ratio? (PHS doesn't specify)
M13 w/o A/C - I'd say 3.55 most likely

2) did ALL '69s come with the rear window defroster? if not, how common is this?
Optional, not standard. Blower style is not uncommon, grid type (printed on glass) is rather uncommon on a '69

3) what two letter code will be on the rallye II rim for this car?
Should be 14x7, "JK" stamp code
4) the car has no tach / gauges ... I am inclined to add gauges and a hood tach. Is it wrong?
Why not? Both were available on that car as factory installed options.

5) the wiring is full of surprises... step on the brake and the front parking lites come on; turn on the headlites and the brite indicator is on when it's in low-beam mode; blinkers >pffft!< yeah, right! Any common electrical gremlins with these cars that I use as a staring point for sleuthing out these undocumented 'features'?
Start by checking and replacing ALL of the running lamp / stop lamp / turn signal bulbs. THat won't fix the high beam indicator issue, but may correct the rest of your complaints

6) the sticky rubber coated steering wheel has to GO. What wood wheel is correct for this? Anyone have a used original (imperfect is OK) available for a good price?
I don't have any for sale, but the correct "wood" wheel for your GP would be the same wheel as any other '69 or '70 Pontiac with the wood wheel

Oh, as any good newbie should, I'll post some pics soon...

Sounds like a neat GP - congrats and please post some pics. ANY stick GP is a rarity!

[PONTIAC LARRY]

I would say for sure a 3.23 or 3.55.
The same year GTO with that same spec 350 HP 400 , non-A/C, with a manual shift would be 3.55

[Engine-Ear]

Thanks a lot for the feedback, guys.

Man, I want to play hookie from work and putz with the car today instead!

[Matt Meaney]

nice find!

as said the rear would be a 3.55

69 was the first year for the grid style defrost. i've never see the blower style in a Gp that year, but won't say it didn't happen.

wrong bulbs, bulbs installed wrong, and corrosion would be easy first looks. one of my cars did funky stuff with the head lights on. ended up grounding the switch and everything was right again. so check for good grounds or make your own to be sure.

did you get the phs? i'd be searching for the build sheet to see if anything was hand written about the export. would be neat to find out where it went.

[Engine-Ear]

Matt_Meaney-

Thanks for the feedback...convergence of opinion is helpful.

I have PHS and I will scan and post the sheet with the export info on it soon.

also, and O/T: thanks for your Sun machine manual - came in the mail today!

[form74]

Matt,

First a 69 bird and now a 69 GP, do I see a trend here. Pictures needed.

[Engine-Ear]

Gary, I wouldn't call it a trend...the 'bird was an inheritance and the GP is well, pure beauty and I have always wanted one (plus it came from the collection that the 'bird did).

I'll snap more pics tomorrow!

[2002Z4CSS]

Sounds like a poor ground, bad bulb or bulb socket causing your lighting concerns.

[GpFreak]

PIX!

Congrats on the car, sorry about the loss of your friend.

[Engine-Ear]

Pics may be delayed as we are experiencing a Norris-grade windstorm so the car is in the garage and there's not enough room to get suitable pics. But ya never know...

[Engine-Ear]

The pics are pretty self explanatory but here are a few notes:

-there is an unreal power steering leak...add fluid and it literally runs out. New pump will be installed this weekend.

-looking at the pass side firewall, looks like there was add-on A/C at one time.

-I suppose a rust free decklid for one of these cars is damn near impossible to find.

-why are there two vent pulls?

[Engine-Ear]

-As far as I can tell, the car is straight and has a minimum of serious rust. Decklid is popping thru and the centers of the floors have a fist sized hole in them.

-I am told manual windows and no air conditioning is atypical with these.

So I took for a brief loop around the block...this thing is REALLY powerful!

[Matt Meaney]

pic up the new py Gp catalog, lots of good stuff. they have reproduction deck lids, or you can use one from a 70 - 72 A body.


O/T, happy to help with the manual.

[GpFreak]

I see the winds didn't knock you offline. Nice find on the car. I had a '70 Caprice that had dual vent pulls, I think the uppers are your vents and the lowers are the floor kick panels??? Kinda like 4-60 A/C. That would be a neat twist if that car accidentally fell off a boat before it could sail.

[Engine-Ear]

So here is a scan of the only documentation I have that alludes to the Export stuff...

The car was sold to "G.M. Overseas Distributors Corp." ... after giving this some thought, I believe that this may have been a 'company car' for use by them...minimum options so as not to waste company money.

Did '69s come standard with power disc brakes? It's not on the options list but it has 'em. Car is very original and only has 78k miles so I am doubting that a PO converted it.

[mike nixon]

Matt 69's had disc brakes std.
Decklid is repopped.
description of vent pulls is correct IIRC from Dad's Cat.


That car's pretty basic, 3 spd was std IIRC, no tilt. Good looking peice, drive the wheels off of it.

[dedsleds]

that air cleaner doesn't look right to me. the snout looks too long and narrow. i assume that's a 400 4 brl right? the gas line hose looks like it's not going to the center of the front of the carb. is that a hd air cleaner (longer snout w/foam element)?

[PONTIAC LARRY]

It has a Holley spreadbore carb I believe. I had a 360 HP 69 428 bonne and it had a small snorkle sized 4 barrel aircleaner , different than the 68 428 375hp I had also.

[Engine-Ear]

Yep, 4bbl. Not sure if the air cleaner is OE. They also offered a dual-snorkel heavy-duty unit.

Yep, has a Holley on it now.

I am replacing the power steering pump tomorrow so I will snap pics of the carb. Intake is the Fe factory unit.