[muscle_collector]

i couldn't begin to count how many 69-72 gp's I have owned / parted out seriously hundreds of them. NEVER have I owned one that didn't come with power steering.

[Pontiyak]

Originally Posted by 428ho4spd

Fairly certain that they only used variable ratio p/s on the '69 GP's. If no p/s was listed on the invoice as an option, then it would have manual steering. No credit was issued on invoices of factory manual steering GP's that I've seen. This car should have manual steering going by the PHS, but the original owner has said otherwise.

Grant,
I looked through all the PHS's have on file for 69 cars whether being 428/428 HO or auto/manual show it as pwr strg-var code 501.
Like you said I also believe that is all there was when it came to PS cars.

Now yours not showing it that is a mystery.

Dave

[supcarbob]

A possibility is that car had power steering added when car was new in dealer inventory. At our dealership I did most of car ordering for stock or a customer order. Cars were ordered from an order form that options were checked off. I know from my experience , we had several mistakes that came in that an order box was not checked or checked wrong. A Grand Prix would have been a tough sell from stock with out power steering and the dealer could have had there service department add the Pontiac accessory kit for power steering to car before placed in inventory. A customer buying car most of the time would not have known that, they just knew it had power steering when purchased.

[north]

I believe by 73 that PS, PDB and automatic were standard equipment on GP's.

In 69 the only choices were variable ratio power steering or the standard manual 24 to 1 box. The SJ package included PDB but not steering.

I would think there are a few possibilities:

1...factory forgot to bill for PS, very unlikely but possible

2...car was built without by dealer or factory oversight so the dealer added it (car would be a tough sell without it)

3...previous owner was fibbing or forgetting

[north]

btw, what did the $9.48 Y96 package get you on a GP? Did it include a sway bar upgrade?

On a GTO it didn't change the swaybar (1" either way) and cost $4.21.

On the Tempest-LeMans line it cost $9.48 and upgraded you to a 1" bar from the base 15/16" bar (you've got to wonder why they bothered to have two almost identical sizes)

On the B bodies it also cost $9.48 and you went from 3/4" to 7/8"

On the bird it cost $9.48 as well but I'm not sure what you got (Koni shocks were a separate option)

[north]

Back on the power steering, if it was built without PS it should have 14x6 rims, check your spare if it's the original rather than the RII's on the car now.

[Pontiyak]

Ya know. I am on board with supercarbob and John. I bet it was mistaking ly not ordered and dealer added. Owner would be none the wiser. If ordered or not.
Did you ask him if it was on lot or ordered car ?
Maybe even if ordered it the sales guy could of forget to add to the order.

Dave

[428ho4spd]

Originally Posted by supcarbob

A possibility is that car had power steering added when car was new in dealer inventory. At our dealership I did most of car ordering for stock or a customer order. Cars were ordered from an order form that options were checked off. I know from my experience , we had several mistakes that came in that an order box was not checked or checked wrong. A Grand Prix would have been a tough sell from stock with out power steering and the dealer could have had there service department add the Pontiac accessory kit for power steering to car before placed in inventory. A customer buying car most of the time would not have known that, they just knew it had power steering when purchased.

That's what I would have guessed too, but he said that he was there at the dealership when the car was being delivered and took delivery that same day 10/31/68, Halloween! Also, he special ordered this car, it wasn't a "lot car". I can understand that many mistakes happened when ordering cars and were corrected before delivery, but this just doesn't add up.

[428ho4spd]

Originally Posted by north

I believe by 73 that PS, PDB and automatic were standard equipment on GP's.

In 69 the only choices were variable ratio power steering or the standard manual 24 to 1 box. The SJ package included PDB but not steering.

I would think there are a few possibilities:

1...factory forgot to bill for PS, very unlikely but possible

2...car was built without by dealer or factory oversight so the dealer added it (car would be a tough sell without it)

3...previous owner was fibbing or forgetting

John,

All good possibilities there... I'm beginning to think scenario 3... forgetting.

[428ho4spd]

Originally Posted by north

btw, what did the $9.48 Y96 package get you on a GP? Did it include a sway bar upgrade?

On a GTO it didn't change the swaybar (1" either way) and cost $4.21.

On the Tempest-LeMans line it cost $9.48 and upgraded you to a 1" bar from the base 15/16" bar (you've got to wonder why they bothered to have two almost identical sizes)

On the B bodies it also cost $9.48 and you went from 3/4" to 7/8"

On the bird it cost $9.48 as well but I'm not sure what you got (Koni shocks were a separate option)

The believe the larger 1" front sway bar was part of the package. That would explain the price difference between GTO.

[428ho4spd]

Originally Posted by north

Back on the power steering, if it was built without PS it should have 14x6 rims, check your spare if it's the original rather than the RII's on the car now.

I thought that only applied to manual drum brake GP's? Original spare is long gone, has matching rally II now.

[428ho4spd]

Originally Posted by Pontiyak

Ya know. I am on board with supercarbob and John. I bet it was mistaking ly not ordered and dealer added. Owner would be none the wiser. If ordered or not.
Did you ask him if it was on lot or ordered car ?
Maybe even if ordered it the sales guy could of forget to add to the order.

Dave

Dave,

He did special order the car and said he took delivery same day the car was delivered to the dealer. Its possible that he just forgot after all these years. I need to call him again, its been well over a year since I last spoke to him.

Grant

[69GP428HO4SP]

I owe a 69 428HO 4 speed with manual streeing came with 14 x 7 wheels
Working on a 69 428HO 4 speed with manual steering and drum brakes came with 14 x 6 Ralley II.

[Pontiyak]

69GP428HO4SP
Can you post the PHS for it. Be very intersting to see that car.
Thanks Dave

[joegpho]

Originally Posted by 69GP428HO4SP

I owe a 69 428HO 4 speed with manual streeing came with 14 x 7 wheels
Working on a 69 428HO 4 speed with manual steering and drum brakes came with 14 x 6 Ralley II.

Hmmn - is the manual steering/drum brake car Limelight Green with the white (parchment) vinyl interior and white vinyl top?

Could it be that A/C mandated power steering - something with the pulleys? I'm just trying to think it through. My thinking is that p/s was left off somehow but A/C was ordered...guessing, though.

I'll post the PHS on the scrapped 3spd HO my Dad had - it definitely had MANUAL steering!

[joegpho]

OK - see the attachment. I think I was "technically challenged" in the past so I have never publicly posted the attached PHS. Grant (who I have known for quite a few years now) and many others are aware of this dead car. It was 1 of 3 69 GP 428 HO 3spd - I can confirm that it was a MANUAL STEERING car. It was the car I learned stick on (the 3spd was replaced with a Muncie 4spd in the early 80s) and also did some other work to.
We didn't have space to keep the car (and I didn't fight hard enough to keep it) - the car was sold in the fall of 1984 (my senior year in HS) and was scrapped in November of 1985.
The engine was pulled by the guy we sold the car to; we sold the 3spd with the car. I would like to find the engine - I have to go and post requesting any leads for WL coded 69 428 blocks.

Sorry for the long reply - car had manual steering - and AM/FM stereo radio.

[north]

You guys may be right about the 6" rim being a brake rather than steering thing, I'll look it up in my MPC tonight.

The PHS from joegpho is interesting on a few fronts;

First it has the non HD price for the Safe-T-track which should apply to any diff with 3.23 gears or numerically lower. Didn't an HO without auto come with 3.55's?

Second is the HO on this invoice is $176.94 but on every other PHS I've seen and on the Accessorizer it's $186.42.

Less importantly but still curious is the $7.37 for the underhood lamp instead of the regular $4.21

Neat car! no options but he ordered the HO and the stereo! The common link is they both sounded nice !!

[joegpho]

North,
The original owner passed away about 9 years ago; that's a lesson to others - time is marching on - if you're looking to track down original owners the time is now!
I was contacting him to learn if he ordered the car or if it was some sort of dealer ordered car - or perhaps a mistake done by a different customer or the dealer.
(I also wanted to take him for a ride in my 428 HO 4spd.)
He was our neighbor for about 10 years - and I never asked him!
My Dad related that our neighbor "wanted something fast" - as in a fast car, not a fast selling process, and traded in a 63 split-window Corvette to get this GP.

On the prices, I have seen the same prices for the engine and the underhood lamp as other HO GPs. There might have been a price change effective 1/1/69 at least on engines.

Regarding the price on the safe-t-track, I think it boils down to just an error when invoiced.
My guess is that a memo was not issued (or overlooked) that stated something to the effect that 4spd cars are to get the HD posi, but others shouldn't especially if they had A/C - and left out mention of the "base" transmission, which was the 3spd. Our car seemed like it had 3.55 gears; the original owner top-ended the car to 135 indicated - which if the speedo was off (in the safe way - reading high) 130 was possible with a 27.1" G78x14 tire.
We never checked the codes on the axle and I think the housing was scrapped with the rest of the car.

For you Chicago area readers, the car was scrapped at Victory Auto Wreckers; for all others Victory has used the same TV ad for about 35 years. In 1990, when I found out the fate of the car (back when one could still get every piece of information that a DMV would have) I went to Victory to ask how long they kept cars. Answer, "2 weeks, or up to a month if it is something special." I walked around that yard saying "Where are you????"

This is THE car that motivated me to find a 69 428 HO stick car and is the reason why I have such a passion for these machines; from 1990 it only took me 12 years to get one!

[69GP428HO4SP]

Checked several PHS sheets on some current and past cars and the HO option pricing is different on every car, possibly due to MAP pricing, (Market Area Pricing) or the dealerships were allowed wiggle room on some pricing options.
First PHS is the one I own which was ordered new by my Dad in Nov. 1968. Second PHS is the one I am restoring that has a different price for the HO. Third PHS is a car I use to own it has the 370HP 428 with PS but the PS is not shown.

[428ho4spd]

Bob, I see that the last invoice doesn't show front disc brakes either... did it have them? Maybe by that time they became standard equipment?

Grant