[Steve Hoog]

I'm a poor man, sometimes I have trouble paying the electric bill. I'll leave the six figure cars to you guys. I'll still fart around with the $100 cars around here and enjoy myself.

[bulletpruf]

Originally Posted by Judge273

I would run the PHS on those 71 "Judges" and "Trans Am" before offering any money. Can't tell from those pictures if they are for real? Not to many Judges or 69 Trans Ams in junk yards these days.

That is like leaving your nest eggs out for the taking? It is just not possible that these guys don't have access to ebay or internet to know what they are worth. But, who knows?

Don't assume these folks know what their cars are worth but I'll bet he does his homework before selling.

Last year I was trying to buy a few cars from a guy in backwoods VA (not far from where I bought my gold Judge) who had about 20 musclecars sitting out in a field and several at his house. He had about a dozen early Mustang coupes, but also a few 'Cudas, an R/T Challenger, and a '70 Barracuda convt (318, 3 sp, complete, but not running). He had no clue what they were worth, but when I started talking "real" money for the Barracuda convt, he started doing some research. I ended up with a tentative deal for $15k for the rusted out (could throw a dead cat through the quarters and not hit any sheetmetal) Barracuda convt, subject to final inspection (I wanted to jack it up in the horse pasture and get under the car). Saw enough frame rust to scare me off. Guy ended up selling the car for $23k and I'm sure someone is putting a hemi in it as we speak.

Scott

[GTOnly70]

Steve,

My unsolicited advice is to pay the junkyard man his money for those Judges ASAP. $4k and $3k for original Judges? C'mon!!! Hell, the vin tags alone are worth that. Find the money for those cars before some sharks sniff them out!

[Steve Hoog]

You guys may not understand this; you definitely won’t understand this, but the car I really want our of the 100+ old Pontiacs in this junkyard is the rust pig blue 68 just behind the Judges.

[Judge273]

Recently a guy sold his dog for a six pack! Like I said who knows what it will take? Unless he is a poor man because he doesn't like money?

[bruno17]

Originally Posted by steved400

I dated a martian once.

I've had a ragtop, and will never have another one. They are not for the racer, IV all the way.

I knew that B@#$ was cheatin' on me!

[bruno17]

Originally Posted by steved400

This is the one that keeps me up at night. Olf fart about 70 or so has this in his back yard here in Tulsa, JUST like the cranky old pucker on Christine. Guess he's waiting for that 16 year old boy he wants to sleep with before he sells it.

Is that the one that I own now??????

[Steve Hoog]

No way, yours was painted nice and shinny. This is a totally different car, sitting there right now.

[R 70 Judge]

Originally Posted by steved400

No way, yours was painted nice and shinny. This is a totally different car, sitting there right now.

Take a second out on your house and buy all 3 cars! It's only a matter of time before someone else finds them.

Especially if that '69 TA turns out to be a RA IV car.

[gto4evr]

Originally Posted by steved400

There will be nothing left to restore is SOOOO right, NOW is the time to make all your big moves towards those last purchases. Right now.

Over this next year the opportunist will be looking for those few left out there to rebuild and cash in at BJ or something similar. Holding out for bargains is not an option anymore, too few and far between.

Take for example this 69 Judge Rag that there is a slim chance could be bought. Even if you spent $10,000 on parts and let’s say $25,000 in labor to restore; maybe you do some of the labor and save a few dollars, you still end up with a 200K plus car at today’s prices. So you could theoretically offer the current owner 150K and still make 10k right off the bat. Hold it for another 5 years or so, and who knows what it will bring then? I don’t think the market will top for at least another 10 to 20 years.

Disclaimer: these may not be realistic figures, but just a starting point for discussion.

So, would you extrapolate this idea to make a case for this?: If you have a project car Judge, and you don't have the financial backing to do a $75k restoration on it, that you'd be better off not doing a backyard resto and instead just sit on the car because in 5 yrs it will be worth gold to the Barrett Jackson Resto industry? Would a $5k resto in your garage be a waste of money? A big $ crew wouldn't pay an additional $5k because they'd have to undo all your work on it so that $5k investment on your part would not be recouped in the sell price of the car. So selling the car in it's pre-resto state would actually make you more money?

[Steve Hoog]

I'm going to need to eat lunch before I can follow that one and try to respond.

I was making a case that if the holder of the 69 Judge rag doesn't won't to sell unless he gets some blue sky, there is still a profit in the car right now with the blue sky needed to buy it at this time.

75K to do a resto? WOW; if that is what the top of line resto goes for, I had no clue. I've never done one, so I was guessing around 35K including parts. Sounds like some rebuilders are making some good money charging rich people to rebuild their cars for them.

[bulletpruf]

Originally Posted by gto4evr

So, would you extrapolate this idea to make a case for this?: If you have a project car Judge, and you don't have the financial backing to do a $75k restoration on it, that you'd be better off not doing a backyard resto and instead just sit on the car because in 5 yrs it will be worth gold to the Barrett Jackson Resto industry? Would a $5k resto in your garage be a waste of money? A big $ crew wouldn't pay an additional $5k because they'd have to undo all your work on it so that $5k investment on your part would not be recouped in the sell price of the car. So selling the car in it's pre-resto state would actually make you more money?

Don't know what a $5k resto in your garage gets you, but if you're in it for the $$$, might want to sell your project car(s) and buy one that's done and let it appreciate. Otherwise you might spend $75k on a resto for a car that's worth $60k when it's done. Obviously if you enjoy the work and have the time, energy, and space to do it, you're in much better shape.

On the flip side, if you think Judges will continue to appreciate at a healthy rate, I suppose you're better off hanging on to your projects.

If you're going to spend $5k on anything, I'd say spend it on hard parts rather than seat covers, carpet and a cheap paint job.

My $.02

Scott

[Steve Hoog]

IMO right now a car holder would be better to sit on the car for another 5 years. Or find a buyer willing to pay him an estimated value for the future.

Cheap rebuilds are a waste of time and money on everyones part for potential concours resto type cars, no debate there.

The cheapo $5K would only be a matter for the hobbiyst interested in having fun with the car, and one who is probably not going to sell or do a gold winning resto.

Hope that covers it.

FYI I do all of my own work and even 5K seems nutty to me, I only have fun cars.

[gto4evr]

Originally Posted by bulletpruf

Don't know what a $5k resto in your garage gets you, but if you're in it for the $$$, might want to sell your project car(s) and buy one that's done and let it appreciate. Otherwise you might spend $75k on a resto for a car that's worth $60k when it's done. Obviously if you enjoy the work and have the time, energy, and space to do it, you're in much better shape.

On the flip side, if you think Judges will continue to appreciate at a healthy rate, I suppose you're better off hanging on to your projects.

If you're going to spend $5k on anything, I'd say spend it on hard parts rather than seat covers, carpet and a cheap paint job.

My $.02

Scott

$5k well, actually that's a low number. It cost me $6200 that I can account for to do my 69 vert -- that's all in "hard" parts since I did all the work including quarters, sandblasting, paint, engine build, upholstery etc. It was a "frame off" that wouldn't pass muster in a REAL resto discussion with all these 6 digit cars and owners flying around this site! As an example, I'll be labeled a "hack" because I drive this car so after I sandblasted the frame it got 4 coats of rustoleum brushed on. (por15, and that Master stuff are crap, only real luck I've ever had is with rustoleum!) My objective is to prevent NY rust and still drive the car through a rainstorm to leave it in the parking lot at work.

I've got a 69 Judge project that's been sitting for 20 yrs. I've just noticed a huge increase in what I would have considered the value of the car in it's current state with my 1980's value mindset. I've been watching these discussions and ebay links with merely informational interest, not from any desire to sell it. The car always represented that "shade above" a regular GTO, now after BJ syndrome, how am I supposed to drive this car to the supermarket and shrug off the shopping cart damage like I do with my 71 Lemans because "it's just a Lemans"?

Oh well, enough rambling...lunch ended 45 minutes ago!

[Steve Hoog]

gto4evr

Sounds like you and I are about in the same line of thinking and practices.

[PonchoV8]

Steved, RA II?

[bulletpruf]

Originally Posted by gto4evr

$5k well, actually that's a low number. It cost me $6200 that I can account for to do my 69 vert -- that's all in "hard" parts since I did all the work including quarters, sandblasting, paint, engine build, upholstery etc. It was a "frame off" that wouldn't pass muster in a REAL resto discussion with all these 6 digit cars and owners flying around this site! As an example, I'll be labeled a "hack" because I drive this car so after I sandblasted the frame it got 4 coats of rustoleum brushed on. (por15, and that Master stuff are crap, only real luck I've ever had is with rustoleum!) My objective is to prevent NY rust and still drive the car through a rainstorm to leave it in the parking lot at work.

Been thinking about going that route with my '69 GTO hardtop. Has a fresh and strong 428, 4 sp, etc, but needs paint, body, and interior work. Wouldn't mind tearing it apart, but not for a nut and bolt resto; just want a solid driver that's been completely gone through.

Scott

[70ra455]

Now me and RA2 are in total agreement. I can't believe that someone is offering 2K and 1.5K but for another 3K won't buy these cars? Judges? Whatever.

RA2 let me apologize to you if I took your comments (about not being a lawyer etc) to me personally and responded in an agitated fashion. My bad and my fault.

Just for the record I do not own a Judge Convertible! And just for the record I would love to own a Judge Convertible and a RA4 Judge hardtop as well.

Peace ....

[68addict]

Originally Posted by steved400

You guys may not understand this; you definitely won’t understand this, but the car I really want our of the 100+ old Pontiacs in this junkyard is the rust pig blue 68 just behind the Judges.

AMEN!!! now your talking!! hehehee

[bruno17]

Originally Posted by steved400

No way, yours was painted nice and shinny. This is a totally different car, sitting there right now.

Was wondering if that was the "before" pic. I think "you know who" would be wisest to sell them off a few at a time since the greatest margin of profit is realized in selling the dream of the completed resto. Many people still think you can do complete restos on the cheap. Did you see what that rough 69 T/A with the gold interior sold for? For a little more you can buy one that runs and drives!

Now back to the topic at hand.........I agree with the "buy the highest horse/manual trans combo" when it comes to musclecars. My second car was a 70 silver/red 455 auto full load vert. Bought it when I was 19 for $2200.00
It had a/c p/w p/trunk p/locks, 4way seat,cruise,posi, and yes it was a cool cruiser but it was nowhere close to my RAiv 4spd when it comes to putting a grin on your face that you can't wipe off.