[Jeff Hamlin]

...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Pra_61n4o

[north]

Beautiful work, just the amount of tidiness of the car throughout the process, and the shop in the background is striking. Very impressive to see such cleanliness and order in any bodyshop-resto shop.

The claim of there being only 8 white Judges built is BS though, same with 1 of 1 for red guts with white paint. In my PHS collection, of which I have 7 1/4 % of all 69 Judges built I have 10 white Judges. Extrapolate this out and I guess they built 170 white Judges. As for the red guts it is the most common color with white paint, it extrapolates to over 55 white Judges with red guts. Takes nothing away from this beautiful car though, just pointing out the fish stories that are always out there.

[Joe's Garage]

RA III, 4spd, red guts with buckets, tach and gauges, soft ray glass, 8-track player, no console, 3.55 non-posi.

It had rusty quarters and there was an issue with obtaining the title as the previous owner made a deal to sell it to Dad and then pawned the title before he took delivery of the car. After he sold the car, he filed bankruptcy, so there was nowhere to go with the seller.

The pawn guys wanted something silly like $3k for the title, even though they had only lent $1000 on it less than a month previously.

So it went to pieces over a couple weekends.

My Dad says that the guy that bought the complete 'WS' engine had tears in his eyes when he drove down from Colorado to pick it up. It was going into his inherited 1969 Judge that his father bought new. His dad had blown the original engine (stupid cast connecting rods) when it was just a couple years old. The engine was the single incorrect item on the Judge, which only had something like 20k miles on it at that point.

So there were at least 2 with white body and red guts, although one was euthanized.....humanely, of course.

Thanks for the video link (and the memories).

[Jack Ferris]

There was one in Salt Lake about 35-40 years ago.

[69droptopraiii]

Cool video.The car took concours gold at one of the gtoaa’s.Both the owner and builder were/are perfectionists and no expense was spared on it.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

My internet/browser doesn't do well with youtube, so haven't seen the car.
But it sounds guaranteed to be extra extremely nice.

On these claims sometimes made
Folks go to the 69 Judge Registry site and see X number of cars their color etc
- then base their claims on those stats.

Not really the best idea if trying to keep the sunny side up, and the air fresh.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Sure enough, went onto the 69 Judge Registry and there are only 7 White cars listed (making the topic car #8 ) . And none of those had Red interior listed.
So that is how they came up with their numbers


The real numbers would be on a low side ... but not that low

Years ago saw pictures of a 69 White/Red Interior with Red/Black decals , Redline Tires and HideAways ... it was a very very good looking Judge

[north]

Good detective work!

[JohnnyAction]

How many Judges were built with a 3spd manual transmission as in this car? I thought that the "Judge" option only came with a 4spd or Turbo 400 automatic.

[north]

My collection of 69 Judge invoices (a bit over 500) shows 5% of them were 3 speed manual. Interestingly this is more than one and a half times the percentage of regular GTO's with 3 speed manuals. Perhaps the price of the Judge option cut down on how much dealers were willing to add additional options in order to keep total selling price in line with the market. Also the Judge was obviously targeting a younger customer who typically spent less on cars.

[north]

Just for fun I looked at the difference between Judges and non Judges in terms of option count and total cost:

Judges had on average 10.8 options (including the judge option itself) but this includes the pattern judges that averaged 11.9 options (Judges that were not pattern had 10.4 options including the Judge option).
Non Judges averaged 13.8 options or three and a half more options than judges that weren't factory forced with 12 options), that is a 31% difference, or 47% if you discount the judge option itself.

Cost-wise things are quite interesting... non Judges retailed (not including shipping costs) for $4,211 on average, Judges averaged $4,197 (Pattern cars at $4,269 and non pattern at $4,176). If you deduct the $337 of the judge option itself it is interesting to see that Judge buyers (and or the dealers) ordered their cars with $350 less of other options than non GTO's in order to stay in that low $4,000's price range. This is indicative that the median market acceptance for a muscle car like the GTO in 69 was not very elastic. The typical GTO buyer just wasn't going to spend hundreds more on a Judge than a regular GTO buyer but was willing to give up some other niceties in order to get the extra performance look and feel of a judge.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

3spd M13 Floor Shift was the standard equipment on all 69 GTO / Judges.
Most of the Pattern Judges were optioned with 4spd or Auto - but even some of the Pattern cars were 3spd M13 equipped.

i think there might be a breakdown on M13 cars all together.
But not just M13 Judges themselves.

My non-Pattern Carousel Judge was M13 3spd
There was no requirement to get an optional transmission on a 69 Judge (or 70 or 71)
But vast majority did have an optional transmission.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

...
There was no requirement to get an optional transmission on a 69 Judge (or 70 or 71) ....

That was in regard to RamAir3 and 455HO cars
RamAir4 had to have an optional transmission .

fwiw - just to be more thorough

[MUSLCAH]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hamlin

...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Pra_61n4o

I drive by that shop every day….on the way to my shop…lol

[Jack Ferris]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

RA III, 4spd, red guts with buckets, tach and gauges, soft ray glass, 8-track player, no console, 3.55 non-posi.

It had rusty quarters and there was an issue with obtaining the title as the previous owner made a deal to sell it to Dad and then pawned the title before he took delivery of the car. After he sold the car, he filed bankruptcy, so there was nowhere to go with the seller.

The pawn guys wanted something silly like $3k for the title, even though they had only lent $1000 on it less than a month previously.

So it went to pieces over a couple weekends.

My Dad says that the guy that bought the complete 'WS' engine had tears in his eyes when he drove down from Colorado to pick it up. It was going into his inherited 1969 Judge that his father bought new. His dad had blown the original engine (stupid cast connecting rods) when it was just a couple years old. The engine was the single incorrect item on the Judge, which only had something like 20k miles on it at that point.

So there were at least 2 with white body and red guts, although one was euthanized.....humanely, of course.

Thanks for the video link (and the memories).

I remember that car.

[gtohurstjudge]

Beautiful restoration........one thing however, all of the original interior red interior 69's that
I have seen have padded dashes and upper dashboard paint that are a darker shade of red than the rest
of the interior. I can't recall if the kick panels were darker or lighter. I think Pontiac did this to cut down on sun reflection in the windshield when driving.

[north]

There are two different red interior colors in 1969 Pontiac's, Burgundy and Red (Burgundy was used on some big cars and GP's). The dashboards and surrounding parts as well as the carpet were actually Burgundy regardless of the interior color being Red or Burgundy. Where Red and Burgundy interiors used different colors was on the seat, covers, door panels, console etc. This is laid out quite clearly in the Colors and Trim Sales Album.

[Greg Reid]

The quarter panels seem to be missing the characteristic concave shape below the beltline, usually noticable ahead of the wheel opening.. ..or is it just me? Either way, gorgeous car and absolutely flawless execution on the build.