#1  
Old 05-16-2022, 05:41 PM
Antiwork Antiwork is offline
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Default Balancers and timing cover seals

I tried to search on this but didn’t quite find what I was looking for. I’m trying to use an early (1960) timing cover on a (1971) 400. This being my first Pontiac project, I’m learning all sorts of interesting new things. It appears that the timing cover seal in my gasket kit does not fit. I’m not quite sure what I need there, but that seems solvable. My next question is: will the later style balancer work with the earlier timing cover seal?

For anyone interested, I need to use the earlier timing cover because I’m using an old Hurst engine mount. Apparently the later aluminum ones won’t hold up with the Hurst mount?
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  #2  
Old 05-16-2022, 05:53 PM
694.1 694.1 is offline
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Your cover needs to be machined for the '63 & up front seal. It's a win/win.
Experts will know but I think the '60 used a shorter crank snout which may affect your balancer.

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  #3  
Old 05-16-2022, 06:07 PM
tom s tom s is offline
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No issue with the short snout But might be a issue with the timing tab.Tom

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Old 05-16-2022, 10:35 PM
Schurkey Schurkey is offline
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Is that early timing cover set up like the Buick timing covers--rope seal goes in from the back, and the retainer is staked in place?

Yeah, if there's an option to re-machine for a "real" front seal, go for it.

Photos of the "Hurst" mounts?

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Old 05-16-2022, 10:49 PM
tom s tom s is offline
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That cover uses a spring loaded cork seal.They are still available.Used until maybe mid 63 when they went to a 8 bolt water pump.Tom

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Old 05-16-2022, 11:17 PM
Antiwork Antiwork is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schurkey View Post
Is that early timing cover set up like the Buick timing covers--rope seal goes in from the back, and the retainer is staked in place?

Yeah, if there's an option to re-machine for a "real" front seal, go for it.

Photos of the "Hurst" mounts?
It’s looking more and more like machining for the later seal is probably the way to go. Here is what I’m talking about with the Hurst mount:
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  #7  
Old 05-16-2022, 11:28 PM
tom s tom s is offline
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The original seal goes INSIDE the timing cover.Tom

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Old 05-16-2022, 11:41 PM
Antiwork Antiwork is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom s View Post
The original seal goes INSIDE the timing cover.Tom
I’m not having much luck finding one of the stock seals available anywhere — seems like they’re out of stock everywhere I checked. Doing some more reading on this, it looks like even if I could find one, they don’t seem to seal real well.

I need to drop a few parts off at the machinist tomorrow anyway. I think I’ll just see what they would charge me to machine my cover for the later style seal.

Thanks for the help everybody!

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Old 05-16-2022, 11:56 PM
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Remember it has to be pretty much nats ass on or it will not be centered and will leak.I don’t know anyone personally that did a iron cover.Tom

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Old 05-17-2022, 07:17 AM
Murf Murf is offline
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If you search in the 1960 & older section on here there’s info on this. Also on here http://www.pontiacsafari.com/L1Garag...ealUpgrade.pdf

Murf

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Old 05-17-2022, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom s View Post
Remember it has to be pretty much nats ass on or it will not be centered and will leak.I don’t know anyone personally that did a iron cover.Tom
So, for the sake of argument, let’s say that I can find the cork portion of the seal. Is the spring part of the seal available somewhere? I’m assuming the spring rides against the bottom timing gear, is that correct?

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Old 05-17-2022, 09:13 AM
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HWYSTR455 HWYSTR455 is offline
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If you're not concerned with being visually 'correct', switching to the later model cover is the best approach.


.

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Old 05-17-2022, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
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If you're not concerned with being visually 'correct', switching to the later model cover is the best approach.


.
I can appreciate that, but the later covers aren’t compatible with the Hurst engine mount I’m using, or at least so I’m told…

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Old 05-17-2022, 09:31 AM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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That cover can be bored for a late model seal. As mentioned by Tom, it needs to be bored very close to the centered OE hole. I would put it in a vertical mill. Then use a dial indicator to find the center of the hole. Then set-up a boring head to bore the hole to the new size. It would take some time on a manual mill. Figure 2 hours to tram-in the machine exactly, fixture the cover, find the center and bore the hole. Plan on a couple hundred dollars by a competent machine shop that wants to mess with it. But that would give you what you are looking for.

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Old 05-17-2022, 09:44 AM
Poncho60 Poncho60 is offline
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Do a search for Bill Hanlon here. Somewhere in his posts is a complete writeup on doing this conversion.

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Old 05-17-2022, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiwork View Post
I can appreciate that, but the later covers aren’t compatible with the Hurst engine mount I’m using, or at least so I’m told…
Yeah, I missed that, sorry.

What's the body you're working on?

.

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Old 05-17-2022, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HWYSTR455 View Post
Yeah, I missed that, sorry.

What's the body you're working on?

.
The motor is slated for my 31 Ford Coupe project. Apologies for the OT content (attaching a picture below)
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  #18  
Old 05-17-2022, 10:13 AM
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Very cool!

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  #19  
Old 05-17-2022, 10:24 AM
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Instructions for later seal in the early cover can be found here: http://www.pontiacsafari.com/L1Garag...ealUpgrade.pdf

If you go that way I'll be glad to loan you my alignment tool with a $50 deposit cheerfully refunded after deducting the shipping I pay to get it to you. You will be the 14th "customer" that has used it and no complaints yet.

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  #20  
Old 05-17-2022, 01:22 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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That is an excellent proven option. Thanks for doing all that work.

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