[GoatZillaRacing]

Originally Posted by djustice

With this plate-system we can maybe use the stock valleypan?

I'm modifying the stock valley pans but the aluminum plate style works too. I'll show that soon. We'll eventually make our own Arrow Injuneering pans.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by GoatZillaRacing

Yes you can just say Norwalk is your comments. I'll refund the shipping charges.

I just ordered - Order ID #153

[1980 TA]

Wrapping up the install on my guide plate system today and I have a question.

The roller lifter has two flats, one of which lines up with the oil hole. I installed the lifter with the oil hole facing the oil hole in the block. I'm assuming that if the oil hole in the lifter faced away from the oil hole in the block, it would still get oil due to the ring around the lifter.

I ask because I don't want to screw something up and two, when I was double checking the valve lash today I noticed that a couple of lifters would spin with the push rod and I'm not sure that the oil hole is lined up with the block any more.

As for the system, it is pretty simple. I have it initially set and am going back to double check clearances between the lifters and plate one last time before torqueing it down.

[grivera]

Looking forward to your results - have you considered adjusting lifters with plate on?

You'll know it's on base circle is by using the following method:

Exhaust valve STARTS to open, adjust the intake
Intake valve ALMOST closed, adjust the exhaust

Go cylinder by cylinder following this method, get them to zero lash, and give them a 1/2 a turn more, lock them down. Continue until all are done.

[Murf]

Originally Posted by 1980 TA

Wrapping up the install on my guide plate system today and I have a question.

The roller lifter has two flats, one of which lines up with the oil hole. I installed the lifter with the oil hole facing the oil hole in the block. I'm assuming that if the oil hole in the lifter faced away from the oil hole in the block, it would still get oil due to the ring around the lifter.

I ask because I don't want to screw something up and two, when I was double checking the valve lash today I noticed that a couple of lifters would spin with the push rod and I'm not sure that the oil hole is lined up with the block any more.

As for the system, it is pretty simple. I have it initially set and am going back to double check clearances between the lifters and plate one last time before torqueing it down.

How can the lifters be spinning with the pushrods? I’m messing with a set right now & I don’t see how that’s possible. If the lifters are free to spin, I think somethings not right . It could break the lifters. Approximately how far down is your plate adjusted. Just asking for my on reference.

I have mine all the way down. Maybe I’m doing something wrong. Good luck with the install! Anxious to hear how it goes.

Murf

[hobbygto65]

Has anyone ever tried making a lifter with a roller ball instead a flat roller. Seems like that would solve the problem of having them attached to each other so they don't spin.

[AG]

The load on the ball would be much higher because of the very small area of contact with the cam.

[1980 TA]

Adjusted lifters using the method outlined in Jim Hand's book How to build max performance pontiac v8's. Started with the motor at #1 TDC and adjusted #2 intake and #8 exhaust. I followed the order in the book every 90 degrees of crank rotation until they were all done. It called for zero lash and then a 1/4 turn which is what I used. That all went smooth. I did all of this without the plate in place..

When I went back to double check them all, I spun the push rods in the same order I set the valves so that the lifter was sitting on the base circle and the lifter would actually spin on the base circle as I spun the push rod.

Can anyone please confirm that the oil hole in the lifter does not have to be directly in line with the oil hole in the block, that it is okay if it is 180 degrees away???

I'm working on the plate now. I started with the adjustment nuts all the way down. This was too tight as the lifters would not clear. I have been working it up slowly checking with a feeler gauge as I went. I marked the clearance on the plate with a sharpie as I went.

I got them all where I wanted them and then torqued down the locking nuts and it changed the clearances. I reset them all again making sure the lock nuts were in place as I set them the second go around.

The number 3 exhaust lifter has proven to be the limiting factor. With it at .002 clearance all the others are .006 to .008 with a few on the ends at .012. The .012 is a little bigger than I would like but if I tighten up those clearances, the #3 exhaust lifter does not clear.

Be glad to hear the results of others. When I turn the crank by hand, everything looks good in the valley pan.

[Murf]

Edit to add, I went back & reread your post saying you have roller lifters. I don’t understand what could be going on. Maybe some pics would help. Are you doing this with a flat tappet cam? I don’t understand how this I’s happening with a roller lifter. I don’t know what purpose the plate would be serving with a flat tappet cam.

I’m sorry if I’m being dense but the whole idea of the plate is to keep roller lifters from rotating in the bores.

Murf

[1980 TA]

One question at a time.

Does the orientation of the oil hole in the roller lifter matter?

The lifter could spin because the plate was not in place.

[Murf]

No, that whole channel in the lifter body has oil supplied to it.
Again, I’m sorry I misunderstood your original post.
Let us know how it goes!
Murf

[grivera]

Correct - spinning lifter doesn’t matter re oil hole as flat tappets spin by design so shouldn’t matter with rollers. That being said - I also don’t understand how your roller lifters are spinning in bores?

Re: the clearance, when in Norwalk Randy explained that there may be tight spots on some linters. In this situation if other clearances are ideal, you should carefully grind/sand the plate in the tight area(s) to fine tune the clearance.

[1980 TA]

Thanks. That is what I thought.

Now on to a discovery I made tonight. When the lifter is down on the base circle, the lifter does not contact the plate and can spin in a full circle quite easily. I was curious if anyone else running the plate system had noticed this? My concern is what keeps the lifter from wanting to spin when it is at zero lift. I sure would like to see the lifter in contact with the plate at all times, not just under lift.

I've got a phone call in to Randy and will let everyone know what he says when I hear from him.

[grivera]

IIRC, In an earlier post the size of cam base circle was discussed and the range it would need to be in to avoid the oil band riding too high or too low. Can clarify if you’re using roller or flat tappet lifters?

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by 1980 TA

Thanks. That is what I thought.

Now on to a discovery I made tonight. When the lifter is down on the base circle, the lifter does not contact the plate and can spin in a full circle quite easily. I was curious if anyone else running the plate system had noticed this? My concern is what keeps the lifter from wanting to spin when it is at zero lift. I sure would like to see the lifter in contact with the plate at all times, not just under lift.

I've got a phone call in to Randy and will let everyone know what he says when I hear from him.

A roller lifter spinning in the lifter bore, if I understand you correctly, would put a tremendous side load on the roller shaft and lifter ears supporting the roller if the roller was anywhere but true to the camshaft lobe travel.

Tom V.

[1980 TA]

Sorry. A little more info. I have the plate, roller lifters, and cam all as a kit from Randy.

When the lifter is at its lowest point, the lifter is below the plate and there is nothing physical to keep it from spinning. I spun a lifter in its bore slightly to see if it would self correct as it traveled up the lobe and if it is off axis enough, it will bind on the bottom of the guide plate. My concern is what would prevent the lifter from wanting to spin at the bottom of its travel. They stay true spinning the motor by hand but in use I would imagine the forces and momentums at play are different.

I just want to make sure everything is correct before firing anything up.

Thanks grivera for the info about possibly needing to do a little grinding for final fitting. A little fitting on #3 will allow me to get more uniform results across the plates.

I'll try to get some video's tomorrow to better explain what I'm seeing.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by shermanator2

Randy,

You try to make a point in the video about high lift cams. As I and others have tried to point out in the various threads about this subject, with a properly designed cam, the high point of the lifter travel is independent of the cam lift. It is the lifter drop that varies with the cam lift. The nose of any properly designed cam will be just a few thousandths below the journal radius. THe base circle of a high lift cam is smaller, so if you want to make a point about high lift cams you should show how much of the lifter flat is above your plate when on the base circle.

Originally Posted by GoatZillaRacing

Good point. You can see in the video that the lifter is still completely held from rotating when on the base circle of this .400 lobe lift cam. You should check out the latest short video about how the lifter self aligns.
https://www.facebook.com/randy.repp....20571751861803

Originally Posted by GoatZillaRacing

One area you don't hear about with the drop in Hyd Roller Lifters is the lifter body going below the oil feed hole in the lifter bore. The measurement is 2.000 from the base circle of the roller cam to the top of the oil feed hole in the lifter bore. This measurement is based on a 1.080 base circle cam.
Using our big .400 lobe lift cams, the Gaterman 1012 lifters still have a little room to spare as pictured in the first two pictures. The Sealed Power HT2148 lifters will expose the oil hole and spurt oil when the cam is on the base circle.
Our .377 lobe lift cams have a 1.135 base circle and work fine with either lifter.
Test your setup prior to firing it up by installing the cam and just placing the lifters in the bores. Keep the valley pan off and use your oil priming tool to prelube the engine and you'll see if it's losing oil. Some oil seepage around the lifter body is to be expected but if it looks like the Clampet's striking oil on the Beverly Hillbillies, you're asking for a rod or main bearing failure.
The key is to use a Hyd Roller cam with a 1.135 base circle or larger on a HT2148 lifter. Let me be clear, it will run regardless but at continued high RPM it will pump the oil to the top and bearings are going to suffer.
For anyone who has built an engine with these lifters and a large hyd roller cam, IF you don't know your cams base circle dimension, call your cam manufacturer and find out.
The hobby can't afford any more Pontiac blocks being destroyed.
Pics on our page at facebook.com/pontiacspeedshop

Does any of this information help with your situation? What are the full specs of the cam you're using?

[rohrt]

Originally Posted by 1980 TA

When the lifter is at its lowest point, the lifter is below the plate and there is nothing physical to keep it from spinning. I spun a lifter in its bore slightly to see if it would self correct as it traveled up the lobe and if it is off axis enough, it will bind on the bottom of the guide plate. My concern is what would prevent the lifter from wanting to spin at the bottom of its travel. They stay true spinning the motor by hand but in use I would imagine the forces and momentums at play are different.

This is where a pic would be good. This sounds wrong to me.

[400 Lemans]

https://www.facebook.com/randy.repp....20566339326493 You can see in this video that the lifters on base circle are dropping below the plate also.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by 400 Lemans

https://www.facebook.com/randy.repp....20566339326493 You can see in this video that the lifters on base circle are dropping below the plate also.

I think it's an optical illusion. The plate is pretty thick and cut on a 45 degree angle so the upper flat on lifters likely in range of the angle on plate's edge.