#41  
Old 01-17-2022, 01:13 PM
1968GTO421's Avatar
1968GTO421 1968GTO421 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Travelers Rest, SC
Posts: 1,285
Default

455dan- Many Thanks much for posting up the copy of "The High Outout". What a neat look into the past of HO.

__________________


"No replacement for displacement!"

GTOAA--https://www.gtoaa.org/
  #42  
Old 01-19-2022, 07:31 PM
455dan's Avatar
455dan 455dan is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: North
Posts: 97
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1968GTO421 View Post
455dan- Many Thanks much for posting up the copy of "The High Outout". What a neat look into the past of HO.
Thanks I was also able to find a link to Craig Hendrickson's
H-O History article he wrote.

A Pontiac High Performance Company
H-O Racing Specialties, Inc.
1974 – 1981
By W. Craig Hendrickson


link:

http://www.usafa67.org/pdf/199/1.pdf

__________________
1984 RX7 Jim Hand style 455 /200 4R Project car
67 White/Gold GTO 4 speed sold, 1968 GTO 4 speed sold, 1969 GTO auto sold, 68 Firebird 400 4 speed (455) sold, 65 GTO Night Watch Blue 4 speed sold, 64 GTO Nocturne Blue 4 speed sold, 71 GTO Gold auto sold. 1975 Formula 400 auto sold.
Hopefully to be restored, H-"O" Racing 73 Trans Am SD 4 speed,
Sons 70 Formula 400 auto, and wife's 1974 AMX 360 auto, 1975 Jeep Honcho 4x4, 1965 Buick Special post

Last edited by 455dan; 01-19-2022 at 07:47 PM.
  #43  
Old 01-25-2022, 02:43 AM
TRADERMIKE 2012 TRADERMIKE 2012 is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Coconut creek FL
Posts: 1,171
Default

Keep the" HO" information alive here, thank you for sharing with us all.
In the meantime, I pulled the Trans. out of my Vehicle because I have no forward Gears and I only have Reverse. I Ordered the Trans. rebuild kit on line and I will bring this 1967 TH 400 to an expert, I don't have the Vacuum equipment needed to assess the problem and I am at wits end and out of time with the trial-and-error approach. Once the Trans. is opened than I will buy the necessary and upgraded parts. I installed a new Hughes Torque Converter and when I spoke to their Rep. he stated that if you have reverse it is not the problem with their T.C, any one no if that is true?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Picture 074.jpg
Views:	109
Size:	88.8 KB
ID:	582633   Click image for larger version

Name:	Picture 024.jpg
Views:	98
Size:	88.0 KB
ID:	582634   Click image for larger version

Name:	Picture 017.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	90.7 KB
ID:	582635   Click image for larger version

Name:	Picture 030.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	86.4 KB
ID:	582636   Click image for larger version

Name:	Picture 236.jpg
Views:	104
Size:	76.1 KB
ID:	582637  


  #44  
Old 01-25-2022, 01:55 PM
Hesster1977's Avatar
Hesster1977 Hesster1977 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Michigan
Posts: 167
Default

The "Scriptures" attached. Have had these for who knows how long (late 70's - 80's?) after they published them. A fun read from time to time!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1356.jpg
Views:	141
Size:	132.2 KB
ID:	582647  

  #45  
Old 01-26-2022, 04:17 AM
TRADERMIKE 2012 TRADERMIKE 2012 is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Coconut creek FL
Posts: 1,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesster1977 View Post
The "Scriptures" attached. Have had these for who knows how long (late 70's - 80's?) after they published them. A fun read from time to time!
Open each page and take a photo then scan them here 5 pages at a time, so the rest of us can see what is inside please, that is of course you own these documents. This is how we can keep H-O alive here. I have lots of H-O files but there too large to post here until I find a way to make them smaller and insert them one at a time.

  #46  
Old 01-26-2022, 08:22 AM
Hesster1977's Avatar
Hesster1977 Hesster1977 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Michigan
Posts: 167
Default

You sure? That is a lot of photos, but I could do it later today? Is there any copyright infringement?

  #47  
Old 01-26-2022, 08:37 AM
TRADERMIKE 2012 TRADERMIKE 2012 is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Coconut creek FL
Posts: 1,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012 View Post
Open each page and take a photo then scan them here 5 pages at a time, so the rest of us can see what is inside please, that is of course you own these documents. This is how we can keep H-O alive here. I have lots of H-O files but there too large to post here until I find a way to make them smaller and insert them one at a time.
You will read through this entire post and you will see I have obtained permission from those that count on the forum and" H-O" himself as long as we insert the information here for free. I am copying one document as we speak. I copied one page at a time to Note pad. I then copy that file to the forum in text and I will see if 5 pages of text is any were the limit of 300 that a photo will occupy. I will copy each photo to my computer and insert four at a time. That is one text file and four photos equal five units the limit each with in 300, got it. Mike out.

  #48  
Old 01-26-2022, 09:23 AM
TRADERMIKE 2012 TRADERMIKE 2012 is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Coconut creek FL
Posts: 1,171
Default

Mike here, I am starting with a PY forum post that I saved on my computer, looks like 11 years ago from 4-08-2011. Forgive me If this conversation is already on these sites Archives but the goal here is to insert any "H-O" documents or information obtained over the post years in one place for quick reading and enjoyment. Please note all this is time consuming and you have to be patient and we who provides any information to the PY forum do so at no expense. I will post this here until I learn how to make a (url). I should be able to send five photos each time.



H-O Racing's "Rocket Box" Date 4/8/2011 Post on PY 1/26/22 Tradermike2012 H-O Racing's "Rocket Box"
Reply
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 > Last »

Thread Tools Display Modes
#1
Old 04-06-2011, 06:29 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default H-O Racing's "Rocket Box"
A thread late last year discussed H-O Racing Specialties "Rocket Box" plenum spacer used on my 1974 T/A 455SD NHRA SS/KA national record holder. At the end of that thread I promised to disclose details of its design. I did so on April 1 at Pontiac Heaven during the tech session given by Kern Osterstock and I.

The purpose of this thread is to post that information and expand upon it as response queries occur.

Here's a scan of the installed "Rocket Box" out of the PHR article on my record setting TA:


Obviously, one cannot tell anything about the inside of it. Most people thought it was just an open plenum deal. But, no, it was not. More to follow...

Like
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#2
Old 04-06-2011, 07:13 PM
GOAT490's Avatar
GOAT490 GOAT490 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker

Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oregon
Posts: 872
Thumbs up You have my interest!
Take it off Baby, take it ALL off!
Oh, you are the tease!!!

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
PHILLYGOAT
1965 GTO/ OEM Block, Crank & D-ports(all slightly modified of course)/
3550lbs/ Full Exhaust/ Foot Braking
1.41 60ft 6.45@104.97mph 10.25@127.12mph(Pontiac Heaven)
More Details on GOAT http://www.pontiaczone.com/forum/vbp...?do=view&g=379
GTO Burnout http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZqdcH0Ltc4
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#3
Old 04-06-2011, 07:17 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by GOAT490 View Post
Take it off Baby, take it ALL off!
Oh, you are the tease!!!
I'd guess you did not attend Pontiac Heaven?

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#4
Old 04-06-2011, 07:26 PM
GOAT490's Avatar
GOAT490 GOAT490 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker

Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oregon
Posts: 872
Default
Only in spirit!

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
PHILLYGOAT
1965 GTO/ OEM Block, Crank & D-ports(all slightly modified of course)/
3550lbs/ Full Exhaust/ Foot Braking
1.41 60ft 6.45@104.97mph 10.25@127.12mph(Pontiac Heaven)
More Details on GOAT http://www.pontiaczone.com/forum/vbp...?do=view&g=379
GTO Burnout http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZqdcH0Ltc4
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#5
Old 04-06-2011, 07:37 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default QJet on open plenum
As a point of reference, here's an approximate cross-section of a QJet on an open plenum spacer:



Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#6
Old 04-06-2011, 07:41 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Here's one primary cross-section discharging into the open plenum (rotated 90deg). Therein lies the inefficiency.



Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#7
Old 04-06-2011, 07:48 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default QJet discharge into open plenum is similar to this.
QJet discharge into open plenum is similar to this: an orifice plate flow meter! An orifice plate flow meter has a "CD" (Coefficient of Discharge) of about 0.68 or 68% of maximum efficiency compared to a straight through pipe. A QJet venturi into a straight hole throttle plate into an open plenum spacer is not as "bad" as the orifice plate, but it's not all that good either.



Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#8
Old 04-06-2011, 09:47 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 30,067
Default
Good Info here:

http://rothfus.cheme.cmu.edu/tlab/fluid2/fluid2.pdf


Pressure Recovery Factor
LOW-RECOVERY RATE: A design that dissipates a considerable amount of flow-stream energy due to turbulence created by the contours of the flow path. Consequently, pressure downstream of the valve vena contracta recovers to a lesser percentage of its inlet value than a valve with a more streamlined flow path. The factor does not vary with travel to any significant degree.

HIGH-RECOVERY RATE: A design that dissipates relatively little flow-stream energy due to streamlined internal contours and minimal flow turbulence. Therefore, pressure down stream of the vena contracta recovers to a high percentage of its inlet value. The factor of a high recovery design will vary with its design.

Tom Vaught

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#9
Old 04-06-2011, 09:53 PM
SD421's Avatar
SD421 SD421 is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Concord,CA
Posts: 1,127
Default
Craig, If Im following you correctly, Im very interested to see what you changed in the carb.
-Don

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________


1966 GTO

1966 421-9.3-1 comp-Race Tec 23cc Pistons
1966 Tri-Power
1967 670 Heads
Pontiac "Highlift" TriPower Cam by SpeedPro
DUR 214 Int 224 Exh @.050 - 107 ICL
LIFT .445" Int .465" Exh
Tri-Y-Headers by Tribal Tubes w/ Goerlich Mufflers
1966 Muncie Wide Ratio 4-Speed
1968-72 Chevy 12 Bolt Rear End w/ 3.73 rear gears
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#10
Old 04-07-2011, 12:49 AM
johnta1's Avatar
johnta1 johnta1 is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: now sunny Florida!
Posts: 20,248
Default
It's changed in the 'box', not the carb I believe.



Craig, I wish I could have been there.
Sounds like a great time by all.



Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
John Wallace - johnta1
Pontiac Power RULES !!!
www.wallaceracing.com

Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova
Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats

KRE's MR-1 THE Quickest, Fastest, BEST Aftermarket Pontiac Block Bar NONE!

1st 5 second Pontiac block ever!


"Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts."


FDT!
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#11
Old 04-07-2011, 01:00 AM
GOAT490's Avatar
GOAT490 GOAT490 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker

Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oregon
Posts: 872
Default
It will be interesting to see this. So should each entrance(carb) to and exit(intake port) from the plenum have a smooth/tapered mouth?

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
PHILLYGOAT
1965 GTO/ OEM Block, Crank & D-ports(all slightly modified of course)/
3550lbs/ Full Exhaust/ Foot Braking
1.41 60ft 6.45@104.97mph 10.25@127.12mph(Pontiac Heaven)
More Details on GOAT http://www.pontiaczone.com/forum/vbp...?do=view&g=379
GTO Burnout http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZqdcH0Ltc4
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#12
Old 04-07-2011, 08:13 AM
Half-Inch Stud's Avatar
Half-Inch Stud Half-Inch Stud is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: BlueBell, PA or AL U.S.A.
Posts: 17,446
Default
Seems to me the Primary CCA has a flow impedance ( velocity & mass-air flow) much higher than the Plenum's low impedance, that an impedance transform is needed.

If that was important (improvement to hidden flow, Performance, mixture) then I can think of a couple transitions:

1). Taper the Secondary outlets toward the Primary outlets to combine flow.

2). Taper the Primary outlets toward each other

3). "Turtle the flow" at Plenum's bottom to difuse the flow toward Intake runners.

Seems to me that a Turtle may be debated with a Flat-floor Plenum. Because the Flat-Floor Plenum has ability to increase flow at high velocity. Bernouli said so.
================================================== ===============
Finally, If a fella honors the CYL intake pull sequencing (firing order), then they would isolate the Cyl 7Path with a wall to pull from the PAssender-side Venturis. In effect 5 CYLs pull from the Right venturis while 3 CYLs pull from the Left venturi. I would be left guessing how a "Rocket Box" would attempt to blend the CFM pulls.

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#13
Old 04-07-2011, 10:51 AM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
As Tom pointed out above, a Pressure Recovery Factor with a LOW-RECOVERY RATE is like a throttle bore dump into an open plenum, i.e., an orifice plate with CD of 0.68. A Pressure Recovery Factor with a HIGH-RECOVERY RATE is like a Venturi Flow Meter, which has a coefficient of discharge of about 0.96!



Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#14
Old 04-07-2011, 11:00 AM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default Venturi Flow Meter reminded me of this.
Because of my background with NASA Apollo, the Venturi Flow Meter reminded me of an Apollo Saturn V rocket F-1 engine:



Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#15
Old 04-07-2011, 11:07 AM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Rocket engine exhaust nozzles are designed to be extremely efficient in order to extract the maximum thrust out of the combustion gases and the transition from combustion chamber to ambient atmosphere. Likewise, I reasoned, a rocket exhaust nozzle transition shape between the discharge from a carburetor throttle bore should be more fluid dynamically efficient than a simple open plenum.

One design question was: what shape? The well known (in rocket propulsion circles, anyway) 80% "bell nozzle" seemed like a good candidate.



Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#16
Old 04-07-2011, 11:53 AM
Half-Inch Stud's Avatar
Half-Inch Stud Half-Inch Stud is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: BlueBell, PA or AL U.S.A.
Posts: 17,446
Default
Of Nozzles and Orifices...you appropriately chose to Nozzle

Factory also chose to Nozzle, while Open-Plenum Single-Plane Manifolds revert back to Orifice.

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#17
Old 04-07-2011, 07:01 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 30,067
Default
[/QUOTE]


Very nice explanation so far Craig, My comment in my sig still fits:

"Engineers do stuff for reasons"

Tom Vaught

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#18
Old 04-07-2011, 07:25 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default The Edelbrock Torker I interface.
Here's a scanned picture of the Edelbrock Torker I with the Quadrajet throttle body outlet holes overlaid. A modified Torker I was what I used at the time. Obviously, different intake manifolds were available and allowed in NHRA SS both then and now. The main point of this illustration is to show approximately (since I used a graphics program for the overlay) how the throttle body holes discharge into the open plenum from a top view.

As everyone probably now knows, the Edelbrock Torker I was a race-oriented open-plenum (360 deg) intake masquerading as a torque-oriented street manifold. I believe that the constrictions (shrouding flanges) at the 1:30, 4:30, 7:30 and 10:30 clock positions were to speed up the airflow for street operation. Also, the "volu-step" in the plenum floor was to account for the different flow velocities coming out of the primary and secondary throttle bores, as Edelbrock touted at the time. For my racing purposes, I removed those constricting flanges, removing the "speed up" impediments at the four corners. However, this had little to do with the "rocket box" technology soon to be applied.



Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Last edited by Craig Hendrickson; 04-07-2011 at 07:32 PM.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#19
Old 04-07-2011, 10:53 PM
blueghoast's Avatar
blueghoast blueghoast is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,104
Default
HUH------- I only went to high schoooooo

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#20
Old 04-08-2011, 06:21 AM
Cliff R's Avatar
Cliff R Cliff R is online now
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Mount Vernon, Ohio 43050
Posts: 16,998
Default
Me too....but I've been on the dyno scores of times with the Q-jet, and have observed some DRAMATIC power differences with single plane intakes and various spacers used on them.

Several years ago, we did a back to back dyno run on a 455 using a stock Torker I and my ported iron intake, with my own 1977 Pontiac Q-jet. No spacer was used on either intake.

The stock intake made 57 MORE HP than the stock Torker I!!!

I know that this happens because of the basic design of the Torker I and the relationship between the Q-jet carb and the intake.

A few years ago we were on the dyno with a 505cid engine that should have been up near 600hp. We were using a Tomahawk intake with my own Q-jet bolted directly to it. We could BARELY get 500hp out of it.

After many pulls and much tuning, we swapped on a Victor intake and HP950 Holley and it went up around 610HP on the very next pull.

During the "down time", a custom spacer was made for the Tomahawk intake to use the Q-jet. About an hour later we were rewarded with a pull that rivalled the Victor/Holley set-up. The power numbers were 102HP greater than the previous pulls using no spacer at all!

Lacking all the scientific stuff as to what's going on here....I can just tell you that I'm not surprised in the least that a custom spacer would be worth a LOT of power on a single plane intake when using a Q-jet.......Cliff

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran!
https://cliffshighperformance.com/
73 Ventura, 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile)
H-O Racing's "Rocket Box"
Reply
Page 2 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 > Last »

Thread Tools Display Modes
#21
Old 04-08-2011, 07:04 AM
Slick's Avatar
Slick Slick is offline
Senior Chief

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 304
Default
de Laval nozzle? Convergent-divergent?

Homer H. Hickam Jr. would be proud.

Like
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#22
Old 04-08-2011, 07:45 AM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick View Post
de Laval nozzle? Convergent-divergent?
A "de Laval nozzle" is, of course, a Convergent-divergent nozzle. In my next few posts I'll show internals of the "Rocket Box" design and you can decide for yourself.

Quote:
Homer H. Hickam Jr. would be proud.
If not proud, then at least interested. For those who don't know, Homer H. Hickam Jr's book "Rocket Boys" (a memoir) was the basis of the 1999 movie "October Sky."

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#23
Old 04-08-2011, 09:07 AM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default How does it fit?
If you do the numbers on the "80% Bell Nozzle" shown previously for:

Quadrajet primary throttle bore diameter = 1-3/8in
Quadrajet secondary throttle bore diameter = 2-1/4in
Spacer length = 3in

primary Rt = 0.6875in , Re=1.85in
secondary Rt = 1.125in , Re=2.70in

The circles in red are the diffuser exit diameters (Re * 2) overlaid on the Edelbrock Torker I mount flange (white circles are throttle bores).



Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#24
Old 04-08-2011, 09:09 AM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default Side view of diffuser sections
A side view of the above follows. This clearly WILL NOT work! The verticle lines at the bottom of the diagram are the nearest approach of the bolt holes on the mount flange. As shown in this and the preceeding diagram, the bolt holes are inside of the diffuser.



Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Last edited by Craig Hendrickson; 04-08-2011 at 09:22 AM.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#25
Old 04-08-2011, 09:15 AM
ry57pont's Avatar
ry57pont ry57pont is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ham lake mn
Posts: 934
Default
this guy has a good laymans explination of it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0462773187994#

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
1970 gto (4spd) 462 500 hp
11.940@114.21 / 1.843 60'/ 3980 lbs

1964 corvette roadster
1968 corvette roadster
1962 corvette

"equal rights, not equal things"
if you want to know the future, read "atlas shrugged"

I dont race a 4spd because it is easy, I race a 4spd because it is hard.



Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#26
Old 04-08-2011, 09:20 AM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default What to do?
What to do to make this work?

One could shorten the spacer until the "bell" portion is inside the mount holes, but this would drastically shorten the "bell", making it much less efficient.

In real rocket engines, the diffuser is gimballed so that it may be pointed in different directions. The resultant vectored thrust is used to keep the rocket pointed in the desired direction, i.e., up and where it needs to travel downrange. Likewise, the diffuser void in the "Rocket Box" can be tilted in towards the center of the plenum to clear the mount holes and the external confines of the spacer.

Here's the spacer with the diffuser voids tilted inboard. The secondaries are tilted 11.5 degrees and the primaries are tilted 9.5 degrees.



Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#27
Old 04-08-2011, 09:44 AM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default Mount flange view
Here is a simulated view of the tilted diffuser exit holes where they intersect the mount flange. This was the final implementation of the "Rocket Box". I'm sure there could have been further refinements and performance improvements, but this took me two days to rough mill and hand grind. Given the two-tenths ET and 2mph improvement in a same day A-B test compared to my previous setup, I called that "good to go."



Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#28
Old 04-08-2011, 09:47 AM
Half-Inch Stud's Avatar
Half-Inch Stud Half-Inch Stud is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: BlueBell, PA or AL U.S.A.
Posts: 17,446
Cool
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalHO View Post
A "de Laval nozzle" is, of course, a Convergent-divergent nozzle. In my next few posts I'll show internals of the "Rocket Box" design and you can decide for yourself.

If not proud, then at least interested. For those who don't know, Homer H. Hickam Jr's book "Rocket Boys" (a memoir) was the basis of the 1999 movie "October Sky."

Glad you folks caught the wording dilemma in my prior post: A divergent Nozzle; applied to a fluid-in-motion that is eager to expand moreso then the momentum it has. The "Nozzelling" funnelling that occurred in the Venturi waist allows a divergent shape to has the desired flow-improving effect when compared to a straight pipe.

I think the geometric equation relation takes the form: P1* V1 = P2*V2 , or M1 = M2
Need to think about Mass-flow being changed to understand. The rate stuff goes out differs from the rate stuff went in.
===========================================
@ Post # 27: so the Torker I//tomahawk would STILL need the Spreadbore unshrouding performed. That's assuring.

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#29
Old 04-08-2011, 10:24 AM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud View Post
I think the geometric equation relation takes the form: P1* V1 = P2*V2 , or M1 = M2
That's Bernoulli for ya! One can trade pressure for velocity isentropically (no change in entropy or system disorder). In the real world, this does not happen, but thankfully a first order approximation (like P1*V1 = P2*V2) works pretty well.

As far as the "Rocket Box" is concerned, I think the main effect was that it made the inlet tract more efficient, i.e., the carburetor looked "bigger" than 800CFM (455SD size), which is what the engine wanted. It's hard to argue with on track results.

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#30
Old 04-08-2011, 01:35 PM
bobzdar bobzdar is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,292
Default
So how much of the bell do you need to be effective? Could you attach nozzles to the bottom of the carb and have them end right at the port height with say a 1" spacer and get most of the effect with a more stealthy approach (and ability to run a regular hood)? Would the air have to change direction too quickly for that to work?

Any idea what the resulting efficiency of the port becomes with the HO box?

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#31
Old 04-08-2011, 03:40 PM
Half-Inch Stud's Avatar
Half-Inch Stud Half-Inch Stud is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: BlueBell, PA or AL U.S.A.
Posts: 17,446
Default
@bobzar, as much bell as there is Plenum to accept it.
See, the Intake Runners are the next nozzle, and the Plenum "pipe" appears "too large" for basic calculations. There are 2 mechanism that reward the Plenum's existence:

1). the systematic Runner pulls 2 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2.. with 5-7 being the most perturbing.
2). the bell facing the Plenum floor actually pulls the floor up to the bell due to flow racing down the runners. This means the 4 carb exits benefit from the plenum floor. intuitive=not.

I would like to hear "H" of H-O describe flow-bench results of Q-JET-box-manifolds-heads flow results. That would represent a ton of trials performed to find what works best at 28" depression.

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#32
Old 04-08-2011, 06:35 PM
taff2's Avatar
taff2 taff2 is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: South Wales in UK.
Posts: 2,172
Default
Absolutely brilliant Craig, you got out of the Pontiac scene too soon.

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#33
Old 04-08-2011, 06:52 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobzdar View Post
So how much of the bell do you need to be effective?
Good question! Given that due to space constraints, most of the diffuser section on a 3in tall spacer is empty space, one could no doubt shorten it and still achieve some positive effect. How much, I cannot say. But, if one looks at the HMH "Super Sucker" (what a name, eh?), it is about 1in thick and is claimed to work. It only fits square-bore and dominator patterns though. Of course, the "Rocket Box" preceeds this device by about 30 years (which Ken Crocie pointed out to those guys at WestTech a couple of years ago).



Quote:
Could you attach nozzles to the bottom of the carb and have them end right at the port height with say a 1" spacer and get most of the effect with a more stealthy approach (and ability to run a regular hood)? Would the air have to change direction too quickly for that to work?
Only testing on flow bench, dyno and/or track would tell for sure. The main thing to remember about air turning corners is that a 15 degree straight divergent nozzle is the "standard" for gases. Any greater angle on the short turn radius is going to be detremental, but of course the same challenge occurs in cylinder head intake ports.

Quote:
Any idea what the resulting efficiency of the port becomes with the HO box?
Idea? Yes -- about 20HP on an already well tuned NHRA SS 455SD engine with the same intake manifold (E-T1). Specifics? No, I never tested it that way. Personally, I think that there is a lot more performance to be had with spacer technology if one had the resources to pursue it. The data and design I used is now out in the public domain, so have at it.

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Last edited by Craig Hendrickson; 04-08-2011 at 07:08 PM.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#34
Old 04-08-2011, 06:59 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud View Post
(snip) I would like to hear "H" of H-O describe flow-bench results of Q-JET-box-manifolds-heads flow results. That would represent a ton of trials performed to find what works best at 28" depression.
Although H-O Racing had a flow bench, I never flowed the "Rocket Box" on the E-T1 on a stock SD head. This was due to a variety of reasons, mostly time constraints. Besides, the on track A-B test told the story on that particular set up. As I stated above, that result (+20HP approx) was good enough to set an NHRA National Record. If my TA SS/KA had gone quicker, that would only have resulted in more factored HP being applied, so the combo would have been non-competitive even sooner than it turned out to be (1979 IIRC).

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#35
Old 04-08-2011, 07:04 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by taff2 View Post
Absolutely brilliant Craig, you got out of the Pontiac scene too soon.
Well, H-O Racing never did things the same as everybody else. In retrospect, I credit that to my coming into high performance Pontiacs from the aerospace world rather than as an automotive engineer or mechanic. "Outside the box", one would say...in this case the "Rocket Box" :-)

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#36
Old 04-08-2011, 07:22 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 30,067
Default
Imagine laying out all of those different curved shapes WITHOUT any CAD capability in a few hours of time on a piece of paper using basic drafting tools.

Imagine milling out all of those different curved shapes in a 3" spacer WITHOUT any CAD capability in about 8 hours hours of time using a basic manual milling machine.

All of this from an Astro·Physicist who worked at one time for NASA who had no FORMAL training as a machinist, draftsman, or mechanic.

Craig, you are "The Man"

Tom Vaught

ps Understanding the theory is hard enough but then making the part yourself too???????????? WOW

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#37
Old 04-08-2011, 07:52 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vaught View Post
(snip) All of this from an Astro·Physicist who worked at one time for NASA who had no FORMAL training as a machinist, draftsman, or mechanic. (snip)
Thanks for the compliment, Tom. Just for the record, I am not an Astro-Physicist, but I am an Astronautical Engineer (BS USAFA, MS Purdue). The former worry about the beginning, current state and the fate of the universe. The latter worry about launching rockets to wherever. In some cases, the Moon (Apollo). In my case, I worried (after 1974) how to make Pontiacs go quicker and faster, of which I had some success.

Doing "Rocket Box" design pre-CAD was indeed a challenge. But, I did not know any other way to do it. That's why, IMO, there is a lot of potential left in carb-manifold spacer design.

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Last edited by Craig Hendrickson; 04-08-2011 at 07:59 PM.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#38
Old 04-08-2011, 08:10 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 30,067
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalHO View Post
Thanks for the compliment, Tom. Just for the record, I am not an Astro-Physicist, but I am an Astronautical Engineer (BS USAFA, MS Purdue). The former worry about the beginning, current state and the fate of the universe. The latter worry about launching rockets to wherever. In some cases, the Moon (Apollo).
Thanks for the clarification, either way you are a "Rocket Man" of the 1st Order therefore the "Rocket Box" name fits well.

Sorry that I missed your presentations in person at Vegas, I would have really enjoyed that presentation. Looking forward to info on the theory behind the design of the staggered box tunnel ram intake for the 326 and the later modded edelbrock/weiand plenum TR.

Tom Vaught

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#39
Old 04-08-2011, 09:06 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vaught View Post
(snip) Looking forward to info on the theory behind the design of the staggered box tunnel ram intake for the 326 and the later modded edelbrock/weiand plenum TR.
You are opening up a box of worms on this one! I think this deserves a separate thread rather than mucking up this thread with early tunnel ram theory and implementation. I shall do so soon.

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#40
Old 04-08-2011, 09:37 PM
Sun Tuned Sun Tuned is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,032
Default
Ya know, I'd just like to say a very sincere thank-you for taking the time to even expose us to this.

You could have just let us keep on going through the motions and let us walk right on past this deal. But you didn't. Thank-you.

Just goes to show... when you think you got everything "figured" out and that there are no more real gains left to find, someone comes along that makes you realize just how far back in the stone age you actually were even though you thought you were at the pinnacle of the heap to start.

There are many things left to be addressed that havent even been discussed here I'll just bet.

Thanks for sharing.

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply
Page 2 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 > Last » H-O Racing's "Rocket Box"
Reply
Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >

Thread Tools Display Modes
#41
Old 04-08-2011, 09:43 PM
Johnny406's Avatar
Johnny406 Johnny406 is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 2,717
Default
Minus the brain swelling and a bit of smoke, this is one of the most fascinating threads I've ever read.

Like
__________________
Johnny US Army Retired
1978 T/A 463 Pontiac, Icon pistons, Scat H-beam rods, KRE 74cc 292CFM D-ports, Lunati HFT cam, V-max lifters, RPM Intake, 850 E85 carb, TCI TH-350 race tranny, 3600 converter 3.73 12 bolt 11.85@114.68mph
1981 T/A 4-speed 406 Pontiac, Merrick ported 6X heads, Comp 270S cam, Crosswind intake 750 Street Demon, 3.42 30 spline Eaton posi street car.
1980 Formula low $ 350 Pontiac project.
1972 LeMans 350 Pontiac (it runs) project
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#42
Old 04-08-2011, 09:56 PM
bobzdar bobzdar is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,292
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tuned View Post
Ya know, I'd just like to say a very sincere thank-you for taking the time to even expose us to this.

You could have just let us keep on going through the motions and let us walk right on past this deal. But you didn't. Thank-you.

Just goes to show... when you think you got everything "figured" out and that there are no more real gains left to find, someone comes along that makes you realize just how far back in the stone age you actually were even though you thought you were at the pinnacle of the heap to start.

There are many things left to be addressed that havent even been discussed here I'll just bet.

Thanks for sharing.
Agreed, this stuff really gets the mind working and opens up the possibilities. Thanks for sharing.

I wonder if any of this can be applied to exhaust design, though I suppose this type of orifice tuning is only beneficial if you have a restriction you're trying to get around...If racing in a class that requires stock ports, one could try to boost exhaust flow by making the header tube in a bell shape I suppose?

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#43
Old 04-08-2011, 10:37 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobzdar View Post
(snip) I wonder if any of this can be applied to exhaust design, though I suppose this type of orifice tuning is only beneficial if you have a restriction you're trying to get around (snip)
Well, H-O Racing was the original marketer of the "Tri-Y" exhaust headers for Pontiacs, for whatever that is worth.

Also, I recall that an "H" pipe between the collectors on my 455SD SS/KA was worth some improvement on an otherwise wrung out race car at the time. I never pursued that further either. There is so much to do in high tech, yet so little time...

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#44
Old 04-08-2011, 10:42 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny406 View Post
Minus the brain swelling and a bit of smoke, this is one of the most fascinating threads I've ever read.
My intent on disclosing the secrets to the "Rocket Box" was inspired by a question last year at Pontiac Heaven. I hope that by putting forth some details that someone will carry on and do more research and testing on the theory and results I had at the time.

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#45
Old 04-09-2011, 01:47 AM
azbirds's Avatar
azbirds azbirds is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Glendale, Az.
Posts: 1,712
Default
OriginalHO, It was great to see you and talk at Pontiac Heaven!! I think we all look forward to your brilliant insight. I will be looking forward to future posts.

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#46
Old 04-09-2011, 04:43 PM
Elarson's Avatar
Elarson Elarson is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 2,522
Default
Fascinating stuff. Thanks, Craig.

I've found that the knowledge transfer runs both ways in my case. Work-related knowledge (mostly aircraft engine testing) helps the racing projects and racing experience makes me a better engineer at work.

Eric

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#47
Old 04-10-2011, 12:16 AM
Slick's Avatar
Slick Slick is offline
Senior Chief

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 304
Default
Would it make sense to create a rocket box with vertical nozzles to use on a 4500 series flanged intake manifold? Or is the end bell of the nozzle pattern too large for that also? Do the nozzles pointing towards each other offer any other advantage beyond fitting the pattern into a Quadrajet flanged intake?

Stuart

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#48
Old 04-10-2011, 12:28 AM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick View Post
Would it make sense to create a rocket box with vertical nozzles to use on a 4500 series flanged intake manifold? Or is the end bell of the nozzle pattern too large for that also?
Yes, I think so -- the larger the flange into the plenum, the better. As to whether the nozzle exits are too large even for a 4500, probably so, but it would be a closer fit.

Quote:
Do the nozzles pointing towards each other offer any other advantage beyond fitting the pattern into a Quadrajet flanged intake?
No.

All of your questions are good ones. Now, that configuration just needs to be tested. Also worth testing is a shorter than 80% bell nozzle configuration to better mate with the flange interface.

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#49
Old 04-10-2011, 01:20 AM
7T2 7T2 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker

Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: SW MO
Posts: 785
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalHO View Post
If you do the numbers on the "80% Bell Nozzle" shown previously for:

Quadrajet primary throttle bore diameter = 1-3/8in
Quadrajet secondary throttle bore diameter = 2-1/4in
Spacer length = 3in

primary Rt = 0.6875in , Re=1.85in
secondary Rt = 1.125in , Re=2.70in

The circles in red are the diffuser exit diameters (Re * 2) overlaid on the Edelbrock Torker I mount flange (white circles are throttle bores).


that looks like something that could be projected on an old school spir-o-graph over z-axis layers. modern cad tech would take those shapes and loft them over an entry to exit function with a guide curve. no big deal now, but MAJOR PITA cudos for manually making it happen back then- obviously pioneer work...
significant dedication,
jim

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#50
Old 04-10-2011, 02:13 AM
INJUNTOM's Avatar
INJUNTOM INJUNTOM is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Commiefornia
Posts: 2,051
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalHO View Post
the HMH "Super Sucker" (what a name, eh?), it is about 1in thick and is claimed to work.
I can tell you that tis idea does work, but never looked at it from your point of view. Only as a way to transition from 4 hole to open plenum and still keep the velocity up.

I made my own out of a 2" 4 hole spacer, and put it on my mild roller 455 with a 4779 Holley and single 4 Wenzler ram. The engine was lacking both bottom end torque as well as limited upper RPM until I installed my spacer. Came alive with low speed traction problems and revs well to 6500 RPM now. Basically a crutch for a mismatched combo in my case.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name: July15 045.jpg
Views: 181
Size: 58.6 KB
ID: 240715 Click image for larger version

Name: July15 046.jpg
Views: 113
Size: 44.0 KB
ID: 240716

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#51
Old 04-12-2011, 01:53 PM
Region Warrior's Avatar
Region Warrior Region Warrior is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 6,536
Default
Wow, talk about forgot'n memories.
Used to star at the pic's try'n to figure the shape/shapes inside the R-box.
Same with the intakes.
Still have a T1 mod'd per the manual. Have that too.
Its not easy let'n go of 1st time tries as a kid....

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
If you cant drive from gas pump to gas pump across the map, its not a street car.


http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/b...hop/?start=100
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#52
Old 04-12-2011, 04:18 PM
adam woodmancy's Avatar
adam woodmancy adam woodmancy is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Manito,IL
Posts: 2,094
Send a message via AIM to adam woodmancy
Default
i just found an original H-O catalog in the basement last night that i would bet is older than i am.. It mustve been my dads, i had no idea we had one.. very cool going through it.!!!



Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
1972 Pontiac LeMans
Thanks to
Quarter-Max Chassis & Racing Components
Fuelab Digital Fuel Delivery
Last edited by adam woodmancy; 04-12-2011 at 04:27 PM.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#53
Old 04-12-2011, 05:20 PM
JLHarper's Avatar
JLHarper JLHarper is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 3,048
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalHO View Post
A "de Laval nozzle" is, of course, a Convergent-divergent nozzle. In my next few posts I'll show internals of the "Rocket Box" design and you can decide for yourself.

If not proud, then at least interested. For those who don't know, Homer H. Hickam Jr's book "Rocket Boys" (a memoir) was the basis of the 1999 movie "October Sky."

Great read and an entertaining movie. On a side note, he was awarded the Bronze Star in Vietnam.

Sorry.



Like Button Notice (view)
Last edited by JLHarper; 04-12-2011 at 06:01 PM.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#54
Old 04-12-2011, 05:59 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Region Warrior View Post
Wow, talk about forgot'n memories.
Used to star at the pic's try'n to figure the shape/shapes inside the R-box.
Same with the intakes.
Still have a T1 mod'd per the manual. Have that too.
Its not easy let'n go of 1st time tries as a kid....
Obviously, the E-T1 is not the way to go today, but the aerodynamics behind the "Rocket Box" has not changed. Hopefully, someone will try it on a modern manifold with a QJet and let everyone know what happened.

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#55
Old 04-12-2011, 06:05 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam woodmancy View Post
i just found an original H-O catalog in the basement last night that i would bet is older than i am.. It mustve been my dads, i had no idea we had one.. very cool going through it.!!!
That is a H-O's #TD-02 (Technical Document 2) book. It was written in late 1973 as a way to answer questions rather than trying to respond to every letter we got. The information in it is still valid. I've had the privilege of autographing several recently, some in worse shape than your picture. I'd guess that shows they were in the garage being used (dog eared and greasy) rather than sitting unused and unread on a bookshelf.

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#56
Old 04-13-2011, 08:13 AM
Half-Inch Stud's Avatar
Half-Inch Stud Half-Inch Stud is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: BlueBell, PA or AL U.S.A.
Posts: 17,446
Default
I still have the Post #24 photo'd book, that I bought new. Still in fine condition. Used it to check Torque values during 2010 engine builds. Good stack of information. Paper quality is very nice, as it takes ink&marker notes well.

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#57
Old 04-13-2011, 09:18 AM
sdbob sdbob is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Latrobe,Pa. USA
Posts: 2,099
Default
Still have the 'xerox' copy of your parts. Plus all of your catalogs.Still have your parts in my cars. Remember I sent you a set of 'tri-y' headers before your offering? Thanks for all the info over the years. I read and think when tech. is offered. Bob.

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#58
Old 04-14-2011, 07:30 AM
Larry Navarro's Avatar
Larry Navarro Larry Navarro is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Spring(Houston) Tx. USA
Posts: 6,369
Default
I still have a stack of those TD news letters. Excellent info!

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Home of WFO Hyperformance Shaker induction.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#59
Old 04-14-2011, 07:49 AM
Cliff R's Avatar
Cliff R Cliff R is online now
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Mount Vernon, Ohio 43050
Posts: 16,998
Default
"i just found an original H-O catalog in the basement last night that i would bet is older than i am"

Hey, that one looks better than mine. I still have it, but it's it rough shape. I couldn't even guess how many times I've read it cover to cover?.....Cliff

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran!
https://cliffshighperformance.com/
73 Ventura, 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#60
Old 04-14-2011, 09:27 AM
rtanner's Avatar
rtanner rtanner is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: fairfield texas
Posts: 1,071
Default
thank you!!! for the great info and complete explanation!!! unfortunatly for me its mostly greek, except for the part about installing the cool ass looking box w the ho sticker and picking up 20hp and setting records, i savvy that part real good!!!! now most importantly when are you going to start making em again when can i get one and how much is gonna cost!!!!! thats all i really need to know!!! im no rocket scientist, but i do have a doctorate in swapping parts and track testing!!!! hahahahahah!!!! seriously i want one!!!!!!

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply
Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 > H-O Racing's "Rocket Box"
Reply
Page 4 of 5 « First < 2 3 4 5 >

Thread Tools Display Modes
#61
Old 04-14-2011, 10:05 AM
ry57pont's Avatar
ry57pont ry57pont is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ham lake mn
Posts: 934
Default
i have a Dyno appt. on the 18th. after reading this i bought a 1" super sucker. it wil be interesting to see what it does.

Like
__________________
1970 gto (4spd) 462 500 hp
11.940@114.21 / 1.843 60'/ 3980 lbs

1964 corvette roadster
1968 corvette roadster
1962 corvette

"equal rights, not equal things"
if you want to know the future, read "atlas shrugged"

I dont race a 4spd because it is easy, I race a 4spd because it is hard.



Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#62
Old 04-14-2011, 10:43 AM
marks73ta's Avatar
marks73ta marks73ta is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Glendale AZ
Posts: 2,098
Default
Craig. I used on of your cams in a 455 build in '76. Whatever the RAIV copy was. Ran fantastic. Several years ago I found an unused set of your tri-Y headers in a swap meet and grabbed them ($75) knowing they would get used somewhere/sometime in the future. I ended up using them on my '73 Trans Am Turbo build by shortening the 2 inch secondaries Blah blah bah. But they worked fantastic for me. I wished I had them back but I sold the car with them. I still have all your books/catalogs, even the 350/326 additonal book. I remember pouring over those pages, and the M/P 326 was just a dream for me. Anywho, just wanted to say thank you for all you two did for us. Ok, enough grovelling. Thank you for all you did. Mark L

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
My Gasser '63 Catalina build. Oh sorry, it's a Street freak. Either way it's a fun build.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#63
Old 04-14-2011, 10:45 AM
marks73ta's Avatar
marks73ta marks73ta is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Glendale AZ
Posts: 2,098
Default
How do you think the Rocket box would work in a boosted situation? Other than extra plenum do you think it would make any difference? Just wondering. This would be a blow thru carb setup. Mark L

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
My Gasser '63 Catalina build. Oh sorry, it's a Street freak. Either way it's a fun build.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#64
Old 04-14-2011, 12:17 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtanner View Post
thank you!!! for the great info and complete explanation!!! unfortunatly for me its mostly greek, except for the part about installing the cool ass looking box w the ho sticker and picking up 20hp and setting records, i savvy that part real good!!!! now most importantly when are you going to start making em again when can i get one and how much is gonna cost!!!!! thats all i really need to know!!! im no rocket scientist, but i do have a doctorate in swapping parts and track testing!!!! hahahahahah!!!! seriously i want one!!!!!!
In a conversation with Art Peterson last night, he directed me to the following "Torque-flow carburetor spacer" #3213 for QJet by Hamburger's Performance. I cannot find any useful description of WHY it would work, but it looks very similar to the "Rocket Box" and would be an interesting place to start. The main drawback is that it is only 1in thick (#3212 for Holley square bore is 2in thick). If anyone tries this, post how it works.



Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#65
Old 04-14-2011, 12:21 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by marks73ta View Post
How do you think the Rocket box would work in a boosted situation? Other than extra plenum do you think it would make any difference? Just wondering. This would be a blow thru carb setup. Mark L
Boost makes up for a lot of inlet deficiencies of course. A 'Rocket Box" spacer should help. See post #64 for a possible 1in example.

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#66
Old 04-14-2011, 01:44 PM
marks73ta's Avatar
marks73ta marks73ta is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Glendale AZ
Posts: 2,098
Default
Caig, after I posted I realized that you are talking about this to help with a spreadbore based carb. Neither the Q-Jet or a Holley spreadbore is a good candidate for blow thru so it probably would not even be a situation. But in a N/A--nitrous situation and a spreadbore I can see it really working. I've always been a big proponent for large plenums in a race situation so I can see the "BOX" as beeing a big help in that alone. Mark l

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
My Gasser '63 Catalina build. Oh sorry, it's a Street freak. Either way it's a fun build.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#67
Old 04-17-2011, 04:05 PM
KEN CROCIE KEN CROCIE is offline
Pontiac Performance Author

Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Rancho Cucamonga Ca.
Posts: 1,411
Default
A Q-Jet isn't a good candidate for a Spread bore ??

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
GOOD IDEAS ARE OFTEN FOUND ABANDONED IN THE DUST OF PROCRASTINATION
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#68
Old 04-17-2011, 04:28 PM
Tazzz2's Avatar
Tazzz2 Tazzz2 is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,054
Default
If you want to explore this even further just ask Butler about effects of intake flows on natural aspirated motors with intake turtle's
http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/products/...s/turtles.html

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#69
Old 04-17-2011, 06:17 PM
KEN CROCIE KEN CROCIE is offline
Pontiac Performance Author

Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Rancho Cucamonga Ca.
Posts: 1,411
Default
OOps I meant blow thru-not "spread bore"

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
GOOD IDEAS ARE OFTEN FOUND ABANDONED IN THE DUST OF PROCRASTINATION
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#70
Old 04-17-2011, 06:47 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 30,067
Default
I think that IF you know what you are doing you can make a Q-Jet work just fine under boost in a Blow-Thru application. Ken C would be the guy to talk to about doing it right, IMO.

Tom Vaught

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#71
Old 04-17-2011, 06:51 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by KEN CROCIE View Post
OOps I meant blow thru-not "spread bore"
Who'd want to do something crazy like blow-thru a QJet??? Never mind, I don't want to encourage more thread drift than there already is. :-)

Ken was only one of a handful of guys who knew the design and interior shape of the "Rocket Box" from inception until recently. There were also more "secrets" in the H-O 455SD SS/KA national record holder than have been generally disclosed. Ken was responsible for one and contributed to others. He was General Manager of H-O Racing during that time for good reasons. Thanks, Ken!

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Last edited by Craig Hendrickson; 04-17-2011 at 07:05 PM.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#72
Old 04-17-2011, 06:56 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazzz2 View Post
If you want to explore this even further just ask Butler about effects of intake flows on natural aspirated motors with intake turtle's
http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/products/...s/turtles.html
Where's the tech article?

I never tried a "turtle", but I can appreciate how it would have merit since air/fuel does not like to make hard angle turns.

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#73
Old 04-17-2011, 08:00 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vaught View Post
I think that IF you know what you are doing you can make a Q-Jet work just fine under boost in a Blow-Thru application. Ken C would be the guy to talk to about doing it right, IMO.
No truer words were ever posted here. HP/TQ numbers speak for themselves.

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...ild/index.html

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#74
Old 04-17-2011, 09:21 PM
INJUNTOM's Avatar
INJUNTOM INJUNTOM is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Commiefornia
Posts: 2,051
Default
Just don't confuse Ken Crocie with Ken C of KRE racing.

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#75
Old 04-18-2011, 06:26 PM
Cartman TD's Avatar
Cartman TD Cartman TD is offline
Member

Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Catonsville, MD
Posts: 44
Send a message via AIM to Cartman TD
Default
With the huge popularity and growing interest in "old speed parts"; have you ever thought about maybe having someone make reproductions of the "Rocket Box"? I know it wouldnt be practical for street use, but i think a lot of racers could definately get a ton of use out of it. I dont have a race car, but I would still buy one, if for nothing else to have a copy of an awesome piece of Pontiac history. I am sure just about everyone that has posted under this topic would probably buy one. I think it would be awesome to finally see something new (can i still call it new? ) come around in the way of carb spacers.

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#76
Old 04-18-2011, 09:23 PM
1971WARBIRD's Avatar
1971WARBIRD 1971WARBIRD is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Troy, Ohio
Posts: 2,467
Default
i know you spec'd this out to work with the torquer I intake, would it work as well on a warrior/ doug nash intake?
i have a D-port 455 i am thinking about running in a 74 S/S body and was thinking of using a warrior intake. i do have a untouched torquer I, and a victor sitting around just incase.

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
FREEDOM ISN'T FREE
BUT WORTH FIGHTING FOR
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#77
Old 04-18-2011, 10:27 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1971WARBIRD View Post
i know you spec'd this out to work with the torquer I intake, would it work as well on a warrior/ doug nash intake?
i have a D-port 455 i am thinking about running in a 74 S/S body and was thinking of using a warrior intake. i do have a untouched torquer I, and a victor sitting around just incase.
You are thinking of using a QJet carb, right?

Please post pictures of the mount flange of each and the dimensions of the Dominator bolt hole center-to-center and current plenum opening. Within 1/16in is good enough for now. Also, how thick could the spacer be, i.e., how much vertical height is available between the mount flange and bottom of the carb base?

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#78
Old 04-19-2011, 04:04 AM
455-4+1's Avatar
455-4+1 455-4+1 is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 1,326
Default
Hi Craig, thanks for divulging this info, much appreciated

How do you think the 80% bell applies to other media ie Water as opposed to compressible gases under pressure (rocket) or Vac (intake manifold)

Slight hijack here but related I am sure

We uitilise a "straight" tapered exit nozzle in different diameters in our jet unit. I have been searching for years on examples of different COD for nozzles using water to generate / maximise thrust but to no avail.

A typical nozzle would be 115mm dia and we would see 170 psi throught it at WOT (6400 RPM)

Heres a quick link to what what it does (my boat, Pontiac Powered of course !!!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ffCw0rR8pI

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Working on going faster (and now staying dry at the same time !!)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#79
Old 04-19-2011, 09:17 AM
Tazzz2's Avatar
Tazzz2 Tazzz2 is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,054
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalHO View Post
Where's the tech article?

I never tried a "turtle", but I can appreciate how it would have merit since air/fuel does not like to make hard angle turns.
I'm not aware of an article for this, however Butler sells them and I just finished discussing (by happenstance) this "turtle" with my engine builder the other night...

We are building a 474 with a set of CV-1 heads and discussing the air-flow of an early CV-1 intake manifold and it's effects (anticipated) and the turtle was something he felt could really assist in directing/balancing air flows within the runners.. As stated N/A air doesn't like hard angles/ bouncing on the floor and the internals on the intake design just had us thinking out loud..... Wilson also does the intake spacers that effect air flows (not sure about Q-jet app's though)

Butler sells the turtle product,,, so I'm sure he as a master builder could shed better light on this if you called him.....

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#80
Old 04-19-2011, 12:21 PM
marks73ta's Avatar
marks73ta marks73ta is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Glendale AZ
Posts: 2,098
Default
Sorry I should have specified a Q-Jet is not a good candidate for a really high HP blow thru. Only because of the small fuel well/bowl and inlet area. I (just me) do not believe it can flow enough fuel thru the single inlet. No doubt that it can work on a moderate (700-900) hp setup. Sorry for the confusion. My opinion only. Mark L

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
My Gasser '63 Catalina build. Oh sorry, it's a Street freak. Either way it's a fun build.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply
Page 4 of 5 « First < 2 3 4 5 H-O Racing's "Rocket Box"
Reply
Page 5 of 5 « First < 3 4 5

Thread Tools Display Modes
#81
Old 04-19-2011, 12:38 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 30,067
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by marks73ta View Post
Sorry I should have specified a Q-Jet is not a good candidate for a really high HP blow thru. Only because of the small fuel well/bowl and inlet area. I (just me) do not believe it can flow enough fuel thru the single inlet. No doubt that it can work on a moderate (700-900) hp setup. Sorry for the confusion. My opinion only. Mark L
That is what they have Dual Quad Intakes for! I bet you could take a HO Racing Designed Tunnel Ram and a Pair of Q-jets and blow thru them and make the same HP as two 750 CFM Holleys for the same boost. The Fuel system would have to be a Magnafuel style 750 type system with a proper 13202 regulator.

On a street car the Bonnet/ Rocket Box/ Tunnel Ram/ design would be pretty tall but put in a rear engine rail, I think that you could make excellent power with Q-jet carbs.

Tom Vaught

Like
__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#82
Old 04-19-2011, 02:54 PM
KEN CROCIE KEN CROCIE is offline
Pontiac Performance Author

Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Rancho Cucamonga Ca.
Posts: 1,411
Default
Mark : How much power are you loocking to make with a blow thru setup ? I agree with your assesment of Q-Jet fuel flow capabilities for 900HP. I am assembling a 464" turbo engine using a single 76mm Garrett and an ancient Holley 4223 850cfm 4-squirter and an H-O HC-02 cam with Rhoads lifters.

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
GOOD IDEAS ARE OFTEN FOUND ABANDONED IN THE DUST OF PROCRASTINATION
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#83
Old 04-19-2011, 05:31 PM
Craig Hendrickson Craig Hendrickson is offline
Pontiac performance Author

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Pahrump, NV, USA
Posts: 926
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by 455-4+1 View Post
(snip)How do you think the 80% bell applies to other media ie Water as opposed to compressible gases under pressure (rocket) or Vac (intake manifold) (snip)
We uitilise a "straight" tapered exit nozzle in different diameters in our jet unit. I have been searching for years on examples of different COD for nozzles using water to generate / maximise thrust but to no avail.
A typical nozzle would be 115mm dia and we would see 170 psi throught it at WOT (6400 RPM) (snip)
Rocket exhaust nozzles are necessarily compromises because the throat/exhaust area ratio only matches the throat/exhaust pressure ratio at a particular altitude. Rocket nozzles are indeed designed for supersonic compressible flow because the exit mach number is > 1. Any nozzle with an exit mach number > 0.3 is considered "compressible flow".

Your situation with a jet drive with water as the fluid is substantially different. First, it is truly (not theoretically) an incompressible fluid and second, it is subsonic. I think that you could craft a bell-shaped exhaust that would be superior to a straight tapered one. I suggest going to a university and talking to an aeronautics or astronautics professor about your situation. Maybe you can end up with a product for a niche market in the jet boat world. There are certainly zillions of hot rod boaters out there!

BTW, that boat looks like a fun ride!

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Craig Hendrickson, the "H" in H-O Racing Specialties.
http://www.OriginalHO.com
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#84
Old 04-19-2011, 06:56 PM
Half-Inch Stud's Avatar
Half-Inch Stud Half-Inch Stud is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: BlueBell, PA or AL U.S.A.
Posts: 17,446
Default
Substantially different indeed:

The water-jet exhaust needs to push against the "ether" of pond water, so spreading factor comes in as a major contributor to pushing against a Reference (the pond water). Yet, say it isn't so that the spreading factor "spray" will look much like a Rocket calc-solution.

Rockets exhausts do not push against an "ether' of anything. Thrust is a matter of exhaust mass*Velocity pushing against the Nozzle/throat.

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#85
Old 06-09-2014, 04:59 PM
BILTIT's Avatar
BILTIT BILTIT is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: sask, canada
Posts: 3,777
Default
So i realize this is an older thread but i am curious if it could be applied to a dual quad tunnel ram? It is on a boat so height is no issue.

The spacer separating the carb. flows has been removed, i showed a pic just for reference of what was in it prior to me owning it and if anyone had thoughts on it being positive or negative to engine performance. Also, the nitrous tubes have been removed aswell.








Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Derek B.
Current best: 11.97@110 1.65-60' !!!

'74 ventura, (Fired july 14/06) '74 462 4-bolt (9.5-1), SCAT, Ross, T-II w/850DP (shaker455), TH350, Conti 10'' 3800, Supercomps, Magnaflow, 3'' Pypes, 3.73's, 28x13.5-15 ET streets.

1970 Beismeyer 17' flatbottom vdrive, 11.8:1 455P, ported heads, dual Qjet tunnel ram.

Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#86
Old 06-09-2014, 06:57 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 30,067
Default
Not a fan of divorcing the front and rear runner pairs at all.
One big advantage of a Tunnel Ram IS its Plenum Volume.

Basically you are now tuning two 4 cylinder "uneven fire" 4 cylinder engines.
(Possible to do it somewhat on a flat crank with a "half a Pontiac engine" but with a V8 crank design carbs will be going crazy.) JMO

Tom V.

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#87
Old 06-09-2014, 07:53 PM
BILTIT's Avatar
BILTIT BILTIT is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: sask, canada
Posts: 3,777
Default
Interesting!

I had Shaker455 setup and test the carbs/intake and dizzy on a test motor, he opted to remove the divider aswell.

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Derek B.
Current best: 11.97@110 1.65-60' !!!

'74 ventura, (Fired july 14/06) '74 462 4-bolt (9.5-1), SCAT, Ross, T-II w/850DP (shaker455), TH350, Conti 10'' 3800, Supercomps, Magnaflow, 3'' Pypes, 3.73's, 28x13.5-15 ET streets.

1970 Beismeyer 17' flatbottom vdrive, 11.8:1 455P, ported heads, dual Qjet tunnel ram.

Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#88
Old 06-09-2014, 08:20 PM
Tom Vaught's Avatar
Tom Vaught Tom Vaught is offline
Boost Engineer

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 30,067
Default
Shaker455 is a sharp guy and we have very few differences of opinion on carbs and intakes.

Tom V.

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
"Engineers do stuff for reasons" Tom Vaught

Despite small distractions, there are those who will go Forward, Learning, Sharing Knowledge, Doing what they can to help others move forward.
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#89
Old 06-10-2014, 07:32 AM
Half-Inch Stud's Avatar
Half-Inch Stud Half-Inch Stud is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: BlueBell, PA or AL U.S.A.
Posts: 17,446
Default
That looks to be a sweet dual QJET intake.

My Dual-QJET Offy had unusually strong off-idle response; maybe due to the large volume between carbs.

No idea what I meant in Post 84

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#90
Old 06-10-2014, 09:49 AM
Tiger Paw Tiger Paw is offline
Senior Member

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: S. E. Michigan
Posts: 230
Default
Tom is right. T-rams work because of the common plenum dampening reverse pulses. I u want to play in this (plenum area), first try adding some volume/spacer, yours looks smallish. Then try some concave and convex shapes internally. Secure them well as there is alot of violence in a plenum. The idea is to use these violent pulses in your favor.

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#91
Old 06-10-2014, 10:59 AM
BILTIT's Avatar
BILTIT BILTIT is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: sask, canada
Posts: 3,777
Default
So just raise the carb plate an inch higher to begin with so to speak. See what the extra volume gets me?

I will most likely be pulling the motor this winter and may just dyno before/after with a spacer etc. Curious what this thing makes for power.

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________
Derek B.
Current best: 11.97@110 1.65-60' !!!

'74 ventura, (Fired july 14/06) '74 462 4-bolt (9.5-1), SCAT, Ross, T-II w/850DP (shaker455), TH350, Conti 10'' 3800, Supercomps, Magnaflow, 3'' Pypes, 3.73's, 28x13.5-15 ET streets.

1970 Beismeyer 17' flatbottom vdrive, 11.8:1 455P, ported heads, dual Qjet tunnel ram.

Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#92
Old 06-11-2014, 10:14 AM
Tiger Paw Tiger Paw is offline
Senior Member

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: S. E. Michigan
Posts: 230
Default
Sounds good, if you hit the dyno I'd be prepared with 1/2 thick spacers as easy material to get. This plenum stuff is easy to test, but be overrly cautious with fastening and garranty nothing can come loose and go thru engine.

Like Button Notice (view)
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
#93
Old 06-11-2014, 10:30 AM
60man's Avatar
60man 60man is offline
Ultimate Warrior

Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 8,430
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud View Post
That looks to be a sweet dual QJET intake.

My Dual-QJET Offy had unusually strong off-idle response; maybe due to the large volume between carbs.

No idea what I meant in Post 84
Ditto...I was surprised at off idle response on my old Wenzler T-ram with my AFB's. That was when I launched off idle & it jumped out of hole.

Like Button Notice (view)
__________________


ECM member.
2008 Outlaw Pontiac Drag Series Champion
MANDRA
Do it now fool! Life is short.

69 Grand Prix/3163lbs / IAII 535 w/ Tiger heads by Gaydosh....9.35@ 144 so far.. through mufflers. 1.26 60'.
Going back to track with pump gas engine....
My 60 Ventura retired to street/strip duty..
Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply
Page 5 of 5 « First < 3 4 5
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	post number 50 page 2 image.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	44.0 KB
ID:	582732   Click image for larger version

Name:	Post number 50 page two.jpg
Views:	98
Size:	58.6 KB
ID:	582733   Click image for larger version

Name:	H-O Racings Rocket Box.jpg
Views:	118
Size:	57.4 KB
ID:	582734   Click image for larger version

Name:	PONTIAC  HO.jpg
Views:	99
Size:	58.1 KB
ID:	582736   Click image for larger version

Name:	1966 GTO Rocket Box page one.jpeg
Views:	115
Size:	15.8 KB
ID:	582737  


  #49  
Old 01-26-2022, 10:04 AM
TRADERMIKE 2012 TRADERMIKE 2012 is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Coconut creek FL
Posts: 1,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012 View Post
I have seen kits on line that allow more travel for the race shocks where they cut the Shock Tower and install the upper or lower "A"- Frames. About cutting Springs, I once over sprung my 3/4 Dodge Van by installing the suspension from a HD Dually Ambulance and had to lower the front Coil Springs. I met a Mechanic that new the fix, he simply heated the front Spring on the base and when the Spring dropped, he quenched the coil with water and that stopped it from dropping any more. You lose the temper in that Coil, but it is not used anymore. I was now able to Align the Front End now. Saves you from having to remove or cut the Front Spring.
Note: go back and look at the beginning photos in these posts they may contain some photos of what is in this Article. I can't put this Article together like it was exactly so those of you who are actually in this conversation, please input photos or information to make this Article more comprehensible. There will be more Articles to come soon.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	HO 1974 Trans Am SD-455 NHRA SS KA Record Holder (2).jpg
Views:	91
Size:	64.6 KB
ID:	582742   Click image for larger version

Name:	H-O326PontiacSideView H-O Racing's Tunnel Ram intakes.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	73.1 KB
ID:	582743   Click image for larger version

Name:	H-O326PontiacTopView  H-O Racing's Tunnel Ram intakes.jpg
Views:	105
Size:	110.7 KB
ID:	582744  
Attached Files
File Type: txt Flow-stream energy HO .txt (70.7 KB, 91 views)
File Type: txt H-O Racing .txt (81.5 KB, 206 views)

  #50  
Old 01-26-2022, 11:57 AM
TRADERMIKE 2012 TRADERMIKE 2012 is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Coconut creek FL
Posts: 1,171
Default

Here are a few more photos I found in "Rocket Box" story.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	dual quad tunnel ram BOAT POST 85 ALSO.jpg
Views:	80
Size:	49.1 KB
ID:	582754   Click image for larger version

Name:	dual quad tunnel ram POST 85.jpg
Views:	98
Size:	49.8 KB
ID:	582755   Click image for larger version

Name:	dual quad tunnel ram POST IMAGE 85.jpg
Views:	115
Size:	55.0 KB
ID:	582756   Click image for larger version

Name:	dual quad tunnel ram POST IMAGE BOAT.jpg
Views:	88
Size:	52.7 KB
ID:	582757   Click image for larger version

Name:	dual quad tunnel ram POST NUMBER 85.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	52.6 KB
ID:	582758  


  #51  
Old 01-26-2022, 12:13 PM
Hesster1977's Avatar
Hesster1977 Hesster1977 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Michigan
Posts: 167
Default

That is just bad-ass. Can you say Tunnel Ram Bath Tub?

  #52  
Old 01-26-2022, 02:02 PM
Hesster1977's Avatar
Hesster1977 Hesster1977 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Michigan
Posts: 167
Default

Ok - here go's on HO documentation - to start with.

First of all, a little preface on my stash of documentation. Some could call it hoarding, some genius.

As to some very brief background, I am an "old timer" I guess, and have been hot rodding since my early teens. I custom ordered my Bandit T/A from the dealer, and managed to keep EVERY piece of documentation on it, from the order sheet, to the window sticker, to the warranty pamphlets, etc.
I also subscribed to all of the HO, Nunzi, and Herb Adams stuff, as well as others, and kept all of it.

Alright, that said, first attachment is the (3) HO "Performance Guide and Catalogue's". They are pretty much identical, published in 1979, 1982, and the last one with the black cover is the last edition but I don't know what year. So, I could start posting pics from the last one given they are redundant?

To add to this, let's really have some fun. I also managed to keep EVERY edition of "High Output" publications, edited by Craig H. See 2nd and 3rd attachments, first and last editions. So once I post the pages of the books first, I could maybe do a weekly publication of the HO articles, and everyone can anticipate this every week just like I did 47 years ago? Or whatever.....

But only if there is an interest for this, as it certainly takes time. It is winter here and I am retired so time is something I have and love talking cars.

Lastly, I need to know if the format I am using for the attachments is readable.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1837.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	61.9 KB
ID:	582764   Click image for larger version

Name:	HO 1-1.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	102.6 KB
ID:	582776   Click image for larger version

Name:	HO 5-12.jpg
Views:	100
Size:	100.2 KB
ID:	582777  


Last edited by Hesster1977; 01-26-2022 at 02:13 PM.
  #53  
Old 01-27-2022, 12:08 AM
TRADERMIKE 2012 TRADERMIKE 2012 is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Coconut creek FL
Posts: 1,171
Default

Mike here, perfect photos proceed as stated and throw in the Nuzi and Hurb Adams material for icing on the cake. Take your time and I will be doing the same simultaneously, from now on whoever has Pontiac Information can join in here. Stories about racing your Pontiacs and the famous people you've met over your racing years and photo attachments always gets attention.

Thanks for joining what will turn out to be a site to go to like John Wallace and others have done. This will be a living continuous Breathing moving Pontiac documented History for all to read and enjoy for the future. As we move into the future when muscle cars will be Battery motorized and we are there now. Try to use your good English etiquette and a good spell check with grammar is encouraged.

To me I never wrote a thesis because I did not finish college so I practice taking notes at home and building my own personal library on the computer. Perhaps if we had computers in the dorm, we would not have walked to the college library in the snow and rain and perhaps some more of us would have finished to graduation. I use the cell phone dictatory to quickly look up words spelling and meaning in one hand while I type. I learned here on the forum to space out your paragraphs and don't dare capitalize every word it tends to blind some readers.

Let me be the first to tell my story since I am the one that started this Thread. I was born a twin in 1957 my father was Gymkhana Racing on long Island New York as I was growing up. I can remember he had a convertible Bug eye Sprite, a European model of course. We would go to Mitchel field before they built Nasa Coliseum. After the 2 Corvettes he Raced the Lotus Elan to prove he was the best in those days in all and any he competed in.

I come from a large family and with that many brothers 5 and 4 girls we were a popular well-known family in the community. Dad taught us sports starting from a young age, I was rolling off his shoulders doing flips and penny drops off the playground High bar. The Races were going on in the Background in some parking lot near the water this day on the weekends always.

We got up early and he took the Exhaust pipes off the 1966 yellow Convertible Corvette Stingray with the 427 ci, 435 HP, Blue- Printed and Balanced Manual gearbox, work driven Vehicle. He said it was 500 HP and I believe it, as I was in it at times when they let the kids ride. On the way to the track all an every one doing the same would try to race him from light to light, OfCourse dad one, he would say" I will suck him up in my Exhaust pipe ". Thrown back into the seat trying as hard as I could to see the speedo. to read 160 mph on the straight runs, the "G-Force" was fantastic. What a rush that car with my father driving was top in the class that season. First, we got to the track and the sun was coming up, we set up the pylons and painted around the base, we went by the map my father prepared and scaled the night before. If the pylons were hit the driver was deducted time. The paint was so they could replace the pylon to the course position. I learned to be a 2 footed driver in those days and to look to the apex of a turn.

Next, Vehicle was the 1968 Silver Convertible Corvette Maco-Shark with the 435 HP Tri-power with the Triangular air cleaner. Also, Blue-printed and balanced to spec., to 500HP and Standard shift as well. I can't say for sure but that kind of work must have been done by a place like Motion Baldwin Chevrolet because he worked in Minneola and they were in the area that he worked in. As a matter of fact, I remember that he once worked as an Engineer for U.O.P and Grumman and REF Dynamics plus ran in the Sperry Sport Clubs of America (S.S.C.C.O.A).

We bought a home on Long Island in East-North Port, two story on 3/4 Acre in a circle ( Culver sac ) for the sum of $25,000, try that today. Growing up in sports playing Football from second through sixth grade as Tight End on Defense and Halfback on Offense. I had a set of Balls on me back then as well, I made 3 Spectacular plays in the last year as I was small for my age and the boys were getting bigger and I lost to under weightiness so I became a Gymnast. I will explain on Offence I was out front blocking to the right when I took out 4 boys with a cross body block for our Fullback to make the touchdown. In those days we were allowed to take our feet off the ground to block, took 3 out with my body and the last one tripped over my legs.

My coach lifted me in the air and caught me on the way down. Next event, my father told me that one day you will intercept the ball on Defense if you always do a square in maneuver as a tight end on the left side. Well-being familiar with carrying the ball on Offence I was ready for It to happen, I just never new when. one winter Game that very thing happened, as I was in the square in rout the Quarter- back threw the ball rite to me as I was in motion in, of course he was looking past me at his half back, too late I caught and intercepted and ran without looking back and scored my only Touchdown in my life was on Defense. Third event, our team in sixth grade won the division and got to play against the league's best, the Black Jersey Farm team they were called, were dressed in White.

The first string played against their best and second team played there second team. I am playing on second team as I was small and the offense pitches to the right as I do my Square in this full back running sounds like a freight train coming and he is second string. So, am I, but I stood my ground and as he committed to go around me, I jumped at his 2 legs and wrapped my arms around them and closed my eyes and found myself rolling to what seemed to be too long? My coach lifted me in the air and threw me high in glee and caught me on the way down.

I started Gymnastics in fourth grade through 1- 1/2 years into college. AS I said, Football was not for me, so I went for a sport suited for my size. Most Gymnast are smaller. We are in fourth grade and this gym instructor is the coach of the High school seniors, so us kids would set up and breakdown the equipment because the Elementary school was brand new and had the latest equipment. The gym teacher would set up an obstacle course, as part of his gym class itinerary and we all competed to go through the obstacle course the fastest.

Those of us that could became the next Gymnastics group in Junior high then we would meet him again in High school. He basically groomed us early in life which is where you want to create a Gymnast. We work out six days a week for 3 hours per when we get to college. OfCourse in between Gymnastic seasons we would Wrestle or join Track and Soccer. We played Hocky the rest of the time. I was brought up at the local Dix-hill pool and became a swimmer and Diving went well with Gymnastics.

So, we move from the Island to south Florida and I win my High School and county and won a Gymnastics scholarship to Memphis State for pre-med, where I become the best Gymnast on that team in 1976-77. While at Broward County Florida I was photographed doing an "L"- on the parallel bars in the Miami Herald where I met the best in all sports that year and Larry Zonka and several other celebrities participated in the award ceremony.

Today I am building over a 10 year span this 1979 Pontiac Trans am with a 1976 front and rear clip. See my other Forum sites for more information if you wish.


Last edited by TRADERMIKE 2012; 01-27-2022 at 12:50 AM.
  #54  
Old 01-27-2022, 08:47 AM
johnta1's Avatar
johnta1 johnta1 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: now sunny Florida!
Posts: 21,237
Default

Here are some links to Craig's threads:

Threads Started By: Craig Hendrickson

From that link above:

This is the link to the Rocket Box: (pics seem to be missing)

H-O Racing's "Rocket Box"


Another tunnel ram thread:
H-O Racing's Tunnel Ram intakes


This is one that ponyaker might like:
What it takes to set an NHRA National Record


His calculators: (unfortunately his website is down now )
OriginalHO's AUC calculator


Updated:
OriginalHO's Calculators upgraded.


Sure miss Craig and Kern.



__________________
John Wallace - johnta1
Pontiac Power RULES !!!
www.wallaceracing.com

Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova
Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats

KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever!


"Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts."

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates
  #55  
Old 01-27-2022, 01:04 PM
TRADERMIKE 2012 TRADERMIKE 2012 is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Coconut creek FL
Posts: 1,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnta1 View Post
Here are some links to Craig's threads:

Threads Started By: Craig Hendrickson

From that link above:

This is the link to the Rocket Box: (pics seem to be missing)

H-O Racing's "Rocket Box"


Another tunnel ram thread:
H-O Racing's Tunnel Ram intakes


This is one that ponyaker might like:
What it takes to set an NHRA National Record


His calculators: (unfortunately his website is down now )
OriginalHO's AUC calculator


Updated:
OriginalHO's Calculators upgraded.


Sure miss Craig and Kern.


Thank you, John Wallace for your Documents, I too found them incomplete on line. However, I made copies of "H-O" Documents and they are complete because they did not get lost over the internet when they clean up the servers. I just have to take the larger 52 + 53-page files and copy them over to Auto Cad and explode them into sub parts or single pages then insert them on this PY forum site for everyone. My other option is to continue to do as I been doing. Eather way works, it's just time consuming. It looks like I am getting enough feedback on this site, so I will slowly continue in posting the "H-O" info. from my PC. It means allot to get your support and thank you very much. I am starting with the smaller documents first. People coming up with News Articles was a treat for me because I am not as familiar with "H-O" as others. As I read through some of this Information, I can see just how far advanced these people were and they got out to early. I have only been into Pontiacs since I bought this 1979 Pontiac TA ten years ago, basically I love cars, motors and racing. All my vans have been Dodge and most of my cars were GM plus one ford van and car.

  #56  
Old 01-27-2022, 01:37 PM
TRADERMIKE 2012 TRADERMIKE 2012 is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Coconut creek FL
Posts: 1,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnta1 View Post
Here are some links to Craig's threads:

Threads Started By: Craig Hendrickson

From that link above:

This is the link to the Rocket Box: (pics seem to be missing)

H-O Racing's "Rocket Box"


Another tunnel ram thread:
H-O Racing's Tunnel Ram intakes


This is one that ponyaker might like:
What it takes to set an NHRA National Record


His calculators: (unfortunately his website is down now )
OriginalHO's AUC calculator


Updated:
OriginalHO's Calculators upgraded.


Sure miss Craig and Kern.


Got an idea John, look at the beginning of my post at number one, starting there are the carb. photos of the modified funnel device" H-O" was inventing with the circular's depicting the process. So, save a copy to your computer and quick reply each picture in its original area. At least they will be close. I am not sure where they fit exactly and you will get closer than me. Post them in your recent Rocket box Post and keep the finished document where it is now. That is if you have the time. We can only fix one
document at a time. I have saved the "Rocket Box" file in text form here already as I did not know where the PY version was kept. By the way, we all would like you to share your favorite Race story here with us, write as long as you want. Write something about your history coming up in the Race world and leave nothing out, were all interested in how you influenced the Pontiac community. Mike out.

John I just read the "Tunnel Ram", Again look at the number one post and go through my post and you will see that the Tunnel Ram photos are there. copy them to your computer and quick reply them back into your own file you shared here. This way they will be preserved all in one place.

There will be plenty more files coming and I would like your help when you can and that goes for anybody else .


Last edited by TRADERMIKE 2012; 01-27-2022 at 01:47 PM.
  #57  
Old 01-27-2022, 02:02 PM
Hesster1977's Avatar
Hesster1977 Hesster1977 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Michigan
Posts: 167
Default

Attachments are the beginning of the HO stuff, starting with the HO Performance Guide and Catalogue. It is 49 Pages, so I will Start with (3) posts of the first 15 pages.
Best viewed on a computer.

Enjoy!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Cover.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	49.4 KB
ID:	582840   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pg 0.jpg
Views:	109
Size:	94.3 KB
ID:	582841   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pg 1.jpg
Views:	107
Size:	89.0 KB
ID:	582842   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pg 2.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	98.0 KB
ID:	582843   Click image for larger version

Name:	PG 3.jpg
Views:	112
Size:	83.6 KB
ID:	582844  



Last edited by Hesster1977; 01-27-2022 at 02:08 PM.
  #58  
Old 01-27-2022, 02:04 PM
Hesster1977's Avatar
Hesster1977 Hesster1977 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Michigan
Posts: 167
Default

Next 5 pages
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PG 4.jpg
Views:	92
Size:	65.0 KB
ID:	582845   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pg 5.jpg
Views:	94
Size:	81.0 KB
ID:	582846   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pg 6.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	89.6 KB
ID:	582847   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pg 7.jpg
Views:	100
Size:	136.1 KB
ID:	582848   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pg 8.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	131.2 KB
ID:	582849  


  #59  
Old 01-27-2022, 02:07 PM
Hesster1977's Avatar
Hesster1977 Hesster1977 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Location: Michigan
Posts: 167
Default

Next 5 pages (15 so far).
I remember buying the CF 15 and 17 fuel pumps, and still have the HR 98 Tri-Y Headers on my Bandit.
More to come later as I get time to scan them.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Pg 11.jpg
Views:	89
Size:	99.0 KB
ID:	582850   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pg 12.jpg
Views:	65
Size:	82.5 KB
ID:	582851   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pg 13.jpg
Views:	71
Size:	91.3 KB
ID:	582852   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pg 14.jpg
Views:	89
Size:	108.2 KB
ID:	582853   Click image for larger version

Name:	Pg 15.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	83.9 KB
ID:	582854  


  #60  
Old 01-27-2022, 02:36 PM
TRADERMIKE 2012 TRADERMIKE 2012 is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Coconut creek FL
Posts: 1,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnta1 View Post
Here are some links to Craig's threads:

Threads Started By: Craig Hendrickson

From that link above:

This is the link to the Rocket Box: (pics seem to be missing)

H-O Racing's "Rocket Box"


Another tunnel ram thread:
H-O Racing's Tunnel Ram intakes


This is one that ponyaker might like:
What it takes to set an NHRA National Record


His calculators: (unfortunately his website is down now )
OriginalHO's AUC calculator


Updated:
OriginalHO's Calculators upgraded.


Sure miss Craig and Kern.


Got an idea John, look at the beginning of my post at number one, starting there are the carb. photos of the modified funnel device" H-O" was inventing with the circular's depicting the process. So, save a copy to your computer and quick reply each picture in its original area. At least they will be close. I am not sure where they fit exactly and you will get closer than me. Post them in your recent Rocket box Post and keep the finished document where it is now. That is if you have the time. We can only fix one
document at a time. I have saved the "Rocket Box" file in text form here already as I did not know where the PY version was kept. By the way, we all would like you to share your favorite Race story here with us, write as long as you want. Write something about your history coming up in the Race world and leave nothing out, were all interested in how you influenced the Pontiac community. Mike out.

Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:55 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017