[slowbird]

Originally Posted by cgeise

Are we sure its the same casting - On Edelbrocks site it says the 12.6 degree has a 5/8 raised port and flange and the 11 degree has a 1.25 raised port and flange ???

I was under the impression that they are different castings due the 11 degree being raised an additional .625 higher.

I have a feeling that the 11 degree might surprise some with its capabilities.

[BigB]

Originally Posted by GTO

Is it possible to go to 380-390 cfm and digitize the port and then go on to bigger and better for the big boys? Then you would have a head for those of us looking for a good head using our old stuff, rockers, Victor etc. Like killing two birds with one stone. ... Eric.

X2
message too short

[Aaron Quinton]

Why would you do that when HP's, CV-1's or Tiger's can do that with little or no work at much less cost? I think Edelbrock has totally missed the boat on this release. An as cast port at 3.2 sq in at 400 cfm with the ability to port out to 460 or better might have a small market. With HP's, CV-1's, Tigers and W-6 heads available, they will have a HARD time paying off the tooling bill for these heads. It serves them right for being late to market with a very similar product line to KRE, 5 years late. They seem to be 5-7 years behind the market and the times.

Originally Posted by GTO

Is it possible to go to 380-390 cfm and digitize the port and then go on to bigger and better for the big boys? Then you would have a head for those of us looking for a good head using our old stuff, rockers, Victor etc. Like killing two birds with one stone. ... Eric.

[Jim Robertson]

These are on track to be relatively small, very fast, and efficient ports. At this time the port opening will fit within the casting of the Victor intake with minimal to no welding.

On these being a relatively simple bolt on replacement for Performer RPM heads, I have not investigated:
1. Valve length, stud and pushrod to allow straight "Pontiac" rockers to fit/work on the 11 degree head. Moving valve angle three degrees affects a number of things. The 12.6 degree head may also use another different rocker.
2. How the valve layout in these heads affects pushrod locations/angles when using a straight rocker. Will require machining pushrod holes. In other words the lifter centers are not the same as the valve/stud centers.
3. Guideplate requirements (…These deserve a set of shaft rockers)
4. Valve reliefs in pistons…but they will be at different angles/locations. Edelbrock has posted the valve locations on their site but be careful as the exhaust “Y” dimension is highly suspect. Looks like they missed the decimal.

Maybe the smart guys at Edelbrock have thought thru these things and these turn out to be more of a bolt on deal with minimal parts change but from my seat these are appropriately named.

Gotta continue grinding…

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Aaron Quinton

Why would you do that when HP's, CV-1's or Tiger's can do that with little or no work at much less cost? I think Edelbrock has totally missed the boat on this release. An as cast port at 3.2 sq in at 400 cfm with the ability to port out to 460 or better might have a small market. With HP's, CV-1's, Tigers and W-6 heads available, they will have a HARD time paying off the tooling bill for these heads. It serves them right for being late to market with a very similar product line to KRE, 5 years late. They seem to be 5-7 years behind the market and the times.

We don't know the price of the new finished heads yet, so we don't know if they will cost much more. Tigers would be my first choice but $7000 for heads and offset lifters would not be in my budget right now. CV1's need an intake, valve covers and piston notching to work. I was looking at HP's but .... Warp 6!! $$$$ Anyway I was just asking if they could make a head in the 390 range for us bracket racers that like E-heads. There would probably be more of a market for those and the profits could help further the R&D of the 'All Out Heads'. Around $4000 for bolt on heads where you can use your lifters, girdle, rockers etc.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Jim Robertson

These are on track to be relatively small, very fast, and efficient ports. At this time the port opening will fit within the casting of the Victor intake with minimal to no welding.

On these being a relatively simple bolt on replacement for Performer RPM heads, I have not investigated:
1. Valve length, stud and pushrod to allow straight "Pontiac" rockers to fit/work on the 11 degree head. Moving valve angle three degrees affects a number of things. The 12.6 degree head may also use another different rocker.
2. How the valve layout in these heads affects pushrod locations/angles when using a straight rocker. Will require machining pushrod holes. In other words the lifter centers are not the same as the valve/stud centers.
3. Guideplate requirements (…These deserve a set of shaft rockers)
4. Valve reliefs in pistons…but they will be at different angles/locations. Edelbrock has posted the valve locations on their site but be careful as the exhaust “Y” dimension is highly suspect. Looks like they missed the decimal.

Maybe the smart guys at Edelbrock have thought thru these things and these turn out to be more of a bolt on deal with minimal parts change but from my seat these are appropriately named.

Gotta continue grinding…

Thanks for the clarification Jim. .... Keep grinding, we're standing by! ... Eric.

[cfmcnc]

Its highly unlikely that the 11 pro-port will be less expensive than the Tiger,and it looks like it will require more work than the Tiger,that equals higher cost,it needs more port metal removed and pushrod holes machined.The pro-port bare castings Jobber price at 2500$ per pair. We believe a finished set of cnc ported 11 pro-ports without parts will cost4500$-5000$.Hand ported customs will be quite higher,and a correct crossection cast single four manifold 3500$-4000$.These heads are not for Dreamers.Bill C.

[Jack Gifford]

Valve lengths?

[Aaron Quinton]

Fair enough. Maybe my cost assumption for the port work is too high. Can't you get HP's or Tigers to 400 cfm without offset push rods, etc? I still think these would be cheaper but we'll have to wait and see. The good thing with these heads is you have a lot more flexibility in the intake port shape and cross section.

Originally Posted by GTO

We don't know the price of the new finished heads yet, so we don't know if they will cost much more. Tigers would be my first choice but $7000 for heads and offset lifters would not be in my budget right now. CV1's need an intake, valve covers and piston notching to work. I was looking at HP's but .... Warp 6!! $$$$ Anyway I was just asking if they could make a head in the 390 range for us bracket racers that like E-heads. There would probably be more of a market for those and the profits could help further the R&D of the 'All Out Heads'. Around $4000 for bolt on heads where you can use your lifters, girdle, rockers etc.

[potentpontiac]

I think the whole idea behind these NEW castings is exactly what your saying. Design your own port shape,and contours to achieve good velocity and port dimension. Granted the cost is higher. We will have to wait and see what kind of performance these new Pro Ports have to offer.

[J.C.you]

Originally Posted by slowbird

I have a feeling that the 11 degree might surprise some with its capabilities.

as compared to what head?

[BruceWilkie]

Any idea if the exhaust side will be up to the capacity of the intake side??

Everyone seems to be focusing on big flow numbers for the intake ports and thats fine, but you cant flow anything into the cylinders until the exhaust pressure lets the cylinder pressure drop below the intake pressure.

You can only "cam" around exhaust restrictions to a point, then you reach a point where either VE or CE or both are affected and power becomes governed by the exhaust.

More discovery on this needs to be brought into this discussion.

[dci]

Is it possible to go to 380-390 cfm and digitize the port and then go on to bigger and better for the big boys? Then you would have a head for those of us looking for a good head using our old stuff, rockers, Victor etc. Like killing two birds with one stone. ... Eric.
__________________

It is indeed possible, I have already done it. I have a 390 cfm @ .700 stock pushrod location version right now as well as a 428 cfm @ .750 offset pushrod port. These are both small fast runner ports that will work well on engines from 428 cu. in. to 535 cu. in. The only problem I see is the amount people willing to step up to the plate. I have only had one person call about the pro port, and he was just inquiring. We need at least 6 confirmed orders to proceed.


Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-628-3354 cell
330-850-5050 shop
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the New DCI Ram Air V heads !!!!

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by J.C.you

as compared to what head?

Tiger

[cgeise]

Originally Posted by dci

Is it possible to go to 380-390 cfm and digitize the port and then go on to bigger and better for the big boys? Then you would have a head for those of us looking for a good head using our old stuff, rockers, Victor etc. Like killing two birds with one stone. ... Eric.
__________________

It is indeed possible, I have already done it. I have a 390 cfm @ .700 stock pushrod location version right now as well as a 428 cfm @ .750 offset pushrod port. These are both small fast runner ports that will work well on engines from 428 cu. in. to 535 cu. in. The only problem I see is the amount people willing to step up to the plate. I have only had one person call about the pro port, and he was just inquiring. We need at least 6 confirmed orders to proceed.


Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-628-3354 cell
330-850-5050 shop
Designer of the DCI Tiger Heads and the New DCI Ram Air V heads !!!!

Don -- while I understand your concern in wanting "advanced orders" I think that is wishfull thinking -- why would guys put up money and pre-order, not knowing what there getting ??? I believe it is more of a " If you build it they will come" situation. The competion of having multiple shops developing this head is exciting and there will be variations that fit most if not all needs. I for one have jumped in on the leading edge of some of this stuff to many times - sometimes it worked out - some times I got a big bite out of my ass, this time Id like to see what grows from the seeds that are planted and then chose my direction from proven results, from a shop that has a reputation of providing a first class product.

[t money]

Don whats the price if we did order6/ 390cfm complete heads

[GTO]

Originally Posted by t money

Don whats the price if we did order6/ 390cfm complete heads

Ditto! Also more info. Shafts, no shafts, Victor intake compatible, rocker studs, guide plates, chamber cc's, etc. Thanks, Eric.

[cfmcnc]

Originally Posted by GTO

Wow 2009, time flies! If they would have offered 400cfm heads by now, I would have stepped up as I think many would have. It just rubs me the wrong way when my Cheby buddies buy good heads from Summit etc. and we can't. ... Eric.

Good heads dont come from Summit.Bill C.

[cgeise]

Originally Posted by cfmcnc

Good heads dont come from Summit.Bill C.

As some one can get most anything thru the catalog houses now days Id say that comment is suspect at best - and self serving

[dci]

Somewhere in the neighbor hood of what these small block heads sell for with decent parts.


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Don Johnston
DCI MOTORSPORTS INC.
330-628-3354 cell
330-850-5050 shop
Designer of the DCI Tiger heads and the NEW DCI Ram Air V heads !!!!