[arbys]

How can tell if I need new front suspension parts? I don't suspect that I need anything and I know that if I go to a service garage they will tell me I need everything new under the hood. I don't want to replace anything that isn't needed but I do want to replace what is needed. I would do all the work myself and then bring it to a specialty alignment shop.

The car is a 66 Lemans 67K miles.

[RAM YAK II]

The first thing I would do is give it a visual. Check the control arm bushings, upper and lower ball joints (check your shop manual for instructions), sway bar links and bushings, springs and shocks, inner and outer tie-rod ends, steering gear slop and fluid leaks and ripped or missing boots. It will require climbing under the car and getting dirty unless you have a lift. You may also want to check the body mounts...depends on how far you want to go. The visual will only cost you your time and laundry bill.

Doug....

[arbys]

Where could I find that info? I'm coming up blank.

[Sirrotica]

Jack up one wheel off the ground doesn't make any difference and grab the suspended wheel at 3 and 9 o clock and attempt to move it with one hand then the other back and forth. You can also push with your knees if you prefer, if there is play you'll feel it and the suspended wheel will have travel in it. That will take care of tie rod ends for checking play. Idler arm I just grab it from underneath and see if I can move it up or down. Pittman arm I run the engine and move the steering wheel and see if the left wheel is sensitive to the steering wheel input. You may need another person to move the suspended wheel to narrow down which tie rod(s) is loose. If you have Pittman arm play you might need another person to move the steering wheel while you watch to make sure the play is in the steering linkage as opposed to the steering box. The checks should be done in the order I listed them. As Mike Nixon said there is allowed 1/8", however if you want the alignment to hold up there should be no play in steering linkage.

Ball Joints need to be unloaded depending upon what type of front end suspension the car has and if done properly (by the book) you need a dial indicator to check play on the load bearing ball joint (most GM cars it's the lower joint). Each manufacturer has a specification for acceptable play and the specification also says whether its radial (side to side) or axial (up and down) play. there are also wear indicators (the raised portion that the grease fitting screws into) that stick through the ball joints on some cars that when they are flush with the outer housing or sunk below they are in need of replacement. This is how steering linkage and front end parts are checked in PA for their yearly state safety inspection and how I was taught to do it by my Father, a lifelong mechanic. There's more to it than most people bother to educate themselves in doing a real thorough front end inspection, I hope maybe this is helpful to you.

[pont3]

If the suspension bushings have never been replaced, they need replacing due to dry rotting and cracking. If they haven't been replaced in the last ten years they need replacing due to dry rot and cracking. If they've been replaced in the last five years with currently available rubber, they need replacing due to dry rot and cracking.

If you plan to drive your car regularly, be prepared to replace those suspension bushings every two years or so. The current stuff is just so inferior that it simply won't last.

If you recently acquired your car and are comparing its handling to that of modern cars, there may be nothing wrong at all, just the sloppy handling (compared to modern cars), of the 1960s.

Usually, there will be some sort of noise such as squeaking, crackling, or metal-to-metal noises when encountering bumps, if rubber bushings have failed.

For ball joints, jack the car up by the control arm, (usually directly beneath the shock at the spring pocket), and grab the wheel at the top and bottom. If there's any looseness in the ball joints you'll find out here. It may also help if you use a long bar of some sort and place it directly beneath the tire and pull up on the bar to see any movement.

For tie rods, simply raise the front of the car at the crossmember and as stated above, move the tire back and forth and look for excess play.

If all checks out ok, go see a qualified alignment facility to get your car to drive and handle as it should. Pay CLOSE attention to the shocks as they make all the difference in the world. If you are happy with the way your car drives and handles, there's probably nothing wrong with it. But obviously, there's a reason you brought this up.

[arbys]

The reason I brought this up is that I bought 4 new BFG's and put on shocks all around. The steering wheel had a little play so I adjusted the manual box and took about 90% of the freeplay out. I do have some squeeking and a little ratteling going over bumps. Next winter I plan on new body bushings.
I'm sure all the bushings are original. Won't the new polyurethane bushings hold up?

[pont3]

I can't speak authoratively on poly bushings as the only place I've used them is the sway bar. What I've noticed is that, yes, they will last longer, BUT, they seem to harden over time and lose what little flex they had when new. Then they start to grind themselves apart against whatever they're in contact with.

The biggest point I want to convey is that your results will vary depending upon useage. I drive my '71 Lemans Sport EVERY DAY, EVERY, day, so I expect higher maintenance than someone who drives their car twenty miles once a month. If you are the latter, most aftermarket parts will suffice for ocassional use. Tax them in daily useage and you'll quickly discover how inferior they are compared to the original parts.

[arbys]

Thanks for the info. I drive a couple of times a week, maybe 25-50 miles during spring ,summer and fall. I'll just go with the rugular replacement parts as I need them.

[arbys]

Thanks for the info. I checked it out yesterday and the lower ball joint on the drivers side has about 1/4" play rocking the wheel holding it at the 6 and 12 position. I looked in the service manual and I'm not sure I can do this without the tools that they mentioned. I wonder what the flat rate manual gives for an of estimate of time.

[arbys]

I posted too soon. I went out to see exactly where there was some movement in the lower ball. I took off the wheel and hub and noticed some movement rocking back and forth. I noticed that the spindle rotated too easily so I popped the dust cover and checked the bearing nut after I removed the cotter pin. I could turn it about a 1/4 turn with my fingers so I tightened about 1/8 turn more with a wrench. After putting it all back together I barely have any movement top to bottom. Thanks again.

[Tempest]

Try to find an "old school" mechanic that can check out the front end. He will jack up each side (under the control arms) and watch the upper and lower BJ as you push and pull at the top and bottom of the wheel. He will also ask you to grab the wheel at the 3 and 9 o'clock position and gently move from side to side to check for steering linkage play. Should take him less than 5 mins to check. (measuring steering play by the 1/8 or 1/16 of an inch is very difficult)

sounds like you removed some wheel bearing play, but you should check the steering linkages as well.

[Old Goat 67]

Ross,

If you found that kind of play, I'd follow Lee's advise VERY carfully!

Bad feeling when you lose control.

Charles

[arbys]

Originally Posted by Tempest

sounds like you removed some wheel bearing play, but you should check the steering linkages as well.

There was no play in any of the steering components. I may have just a little play in the lower ball joint but it seems negligible to me. I will check it out with an "old time" mechanic.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Jack up one wheel off the ground doesn't make any difference and grab the suspended wheel at 3 and 9 o clock and attempt to move it with one hand then the other back and forth. You can also push with your knees if you prefer, if there is play you'll feel it and the suspended wheel will have travel in it. That will take care of tie rod ends for checking play. Idler arm I just grab it from underneath and see if I can move it up or down. Pittman arm I run the engine and move the steering wheel and see if the left wheel is sensitive to the steering wheel input. You may need another person to move the suspended wheel to narrow down which tie rod(s) is loose. If you have Pittman arm play you might need another person to move the steering wheel while you watch to make sure the play is in the steering linkage as opposed to the steering box. The checks should be done in the order I listed them. As Mike Nixon said there is allowed 1/8", however if you want the alignment to hold up there should be no play in steering linkage.

Ball Joints need to be unloaded depending upon what type of front end suspension the car has and if done properly (by the book) you need a dial indicator to check play on the load bearing ball joint (most GM cars it's the lower joint). Each manufacturer has a specification for acceptable play and the specification also says whether its radial (side to side) or axial (up and down) play. there are also wear indicators (the raised portion that the grease fitting screws into) that stick through the ball joints on some cars that when they are flush with the outer housing or sunk below they are in need of replacement. This is how steering linkage and front end parts are checked in PA for their yearly state safety inspection and how I was taught to do it by my Father, a lifelong mechanic. There's more to it than most people bother to educate themselves in doing a real thorough front end inspection, I hope maybe this is helpful to you.

The above explains how to check all the front end parts and I am an old time mechanic. This is how The state of PA, which I held a state inspection licence since I was 18 years old, states in their vehicle safety inspection manual the exact procedure I have outlined. Just passing the knowledge along to people that need to DIY.

[Tempest]

Brad,
I am not disputing your methods at all, they are right on. However, I was just trying to have 'arbys' avoid messing around with a 'Dial Indicator' and trying to measure fractions of an inch when a mechanic can tell by looking, that's all.

[Sirrotica]

If there is any play in the ball joints over an 1/8 of an inch I would replace them, that's .125 inches which is more than most any manufacturers tolerances allow. At that point they aren't really unsafe or dangerous, they won't hold the wheel close enough to have a good alignment and will be a source of tire wear. That's pretty easy to do yourself, to make it easier I use a large bar under the tire tread to check play pushed in while I'm right in front of the wheel, you can bend down and watch the ball joint while still able to wiggle it up and down and side to side, much easier than trying to grab the wheel and move it while being able to watch the play in the ball joint if your alone.

Maximum allowable tolerance is for 66 Tempest is .050 up and down movement so they aren't allowing much at all, they don't want you to test side to side movement just vertical. Just a little more than the plug gap on most spark plugs, you might just want to replace them if there is more than just a hint of vertical movement.

[arbys]

Brad, I appreciate your input on this. When I state that there is minimal movement I'm talking about grabbing the wheel at the top and bottom and trying to wiggle it back and forth. Is this where you say the .125" is measured?

I do have a dial indicator I just need to know where to take my measurements.

[Sirrotica]

Rig it up so it's clamped to the lower A frame and put the tip on the spindle arm or some other flat portion of the spindle. If it's not the clamp style just rest the base on the ground and the tip same on a flat portion of the spindle, your measuring the play from the stationary lower A frame to the moveable spindle.

After I posted the .125 figure I went and actually looked up maximum tolerance and for the car your working on, it's only .050 maximum. The .125 was a figure I knew that was higher than most tolerances allow, just a ball park figure, most any ball joint needs replaced if it's that loose .050 is the actual figure though. Each car varies and depending upon the construction design have different tolerances and if you want to do it by the book you need to look each application up to see how it's to be checked. Some want vertical movement checked, some want horizontal movement checked, while others have a built in indicator they want you to go by.

Here's a PDF table of what the state of MO inspection wants you to check as far as allowable ball joint maximum tolerances, it tells the specs and whether they want horizontal or vertical movement measured, or whether you just look at the indicator if so equipped.

http://www.mshp.dps.missouri.gov/MSH...Tolerances.pdf