[rtanner]

over on the team chevelle board, theres a frequent poster called vortec pro, he offers a 454 based 468 cube crate motor comes to your door for 5100, basically its a 10.5 keith black piston stock rod w arp bolts stock crank isky z-55 solid lift cam, his own magic ported oval port heads, air gap rpm and a 1000hp holley (carb not included) they put it in a 3800 pd chevelle w driver using his speced 4000 stall converter w 4.10 gears car ran 10.60 off trailer! thats amazing, when priced out a pontiac 440 using a spotts kit w the good rods but a cast crank and a set of sd 305 kaufman d ports im at 4050.00 w no block gaskets pan oil pump cam etc? whats it gonna take cost wise to match that 454s performance?

[guccieng]

asking that question around here is like whacking a bee hive with a stick!

[David Holmberg]

How much fun is a 4000 converter and 4.11's going to be on the street?
Not much in my opinion.

If you shop around you can put together a 462 based on Cliff or Jim Hands combo and run mid to lower 11's. The important part is the chassis, if it will 60 you'll be flying.

Plus, you'll only need a 3400 converter and 3.42 gears. (Much more fun to drive around with)...

Just my .02

[Cvarney]

Originally Posted by guccieng

asking that question around here is like whacking a bee hive with a stick!

LOL

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by rtanner

over on the team chevelle board, theres a frequent poster called vortec pro, he offers a 454 based 468 cube crate motor comes to your door for 5100, basically its a 10.5 keith black piston stock rod w arp bolts stock crank isky z-55 solid lift cam, his own magic ported oval port heads, air gap rpm and a 1000hp holley (carb not included) they put it in a 3800 pd chevelle w driver using his speced 4000 stall converter w 4.10 gears car ran 10.60 off trailer! thats amazing, when priced out a pontiac 440 using a spotts kit w the good rods but a cast crank and a set of sd 305 kaufman d ports im at 4050.00 w no block gaskets pan oil pump cam etc? whats it gonna take cost wise to match that 454s performance?

Those Chevy numbers sound optimistic to me.

I'm at 3900 lbs, 555 cu in, 13.5:1 AFR heads, similar converter, 4.10 gears. Car has been 10 flat but normally likes to run 10.20 to 10.30 (typical summer weather conditions). Cost me $8000 to build this motor.

So he's only .3 away from me, with 468 cu in and a 10.5:1 oval port? Either we are comparing apples to oranges on "best vs typical" or something else is not adding up for me.

Where's he from? I'd like to be at the same track on the same day and see what happens.

K

[rtanner]

yeah keith, they did not post the actual e.t. slips over there, im thinking it may be same as over here, some guys amazing performances claimed, are never really backed up w et slips, ive got 71 camaro setting next to my 69 bird so im looking around, trying to learn as much as can about the better running 468 combos, honestly that engine combo and car setup looked and sounded alot like a mid 11 second deal not a mid 10 deal, so keith thanks for confirming what i suspected, those are probably not accurate!

[7secjudge]

Originally Posted by rtanner

over on the team chevelle board, theres a frequent poster called vortec pro, he offers a 454 based 468 cube crate motor comes to your door for 5100, basically its a 10.5 keith black piston stock rod w arp bolts stock crank isky z-55 solid lift cam, his own magic ported oval port heads, air gap rpm and a 1000hp holley (carb not included) they put it in a 3800 pd chevelle w driver using his speced 4000 stall converter w 4.10 gears car ran 10.60 off trailer! thats amazing, when priced out a pontiac 440 using a spotts kit w the good rods but a cast crank and a set of sd 305 kaufman d ports im at 4050.00 w no block gaskets pan oil pump cam etc? whats it gonna take cost wise to match that 454s performance?

Rtanner: I can tell you right now there is no 468 with a stock rod that will last with 1000hp, those stock rods and a rpm intake if it were making 1000hp the car should run at least a 990 et. those stock rods are lucky to last to 600hp let alone 1000hp
BEWARE is my opinion buy something localy. those kb pistons are hypertectic pistons and surely dont live to 1000hp either.
Take it from someone who knows bbc my old 540 bbc made 1732hp on a light tuneup with 20%over driven on the blower i'll let you do the math.

hope this helps
Ron

[goatless]

Why the hell would you want a motor with all of the cheapest parts available if your goal is to make big power? The "bargain" BBC sounds like a ticking time bomb! You say that Spotts' kit cost more, but it's got good pistons and rods! You could build a Pontiac with a junk bottom end for cheap too! I'd bet all the parts in those "magic" heads are junk too. What are the odds that he'll do as nice a job porting the set on a motor that's not his show piece.

[goquick]

what mph? I didn't see it. Also, what track did they run, was it a 1000 foot track?

[65gto69]

I don't understand where you guys are seeing 1000 horsepower. The post states a 1000 hp holley carb.

Also would think that if the BBC would be putting out 1000 horsepower, it would be doing better than 10.6.

Mark

[pastry_chef]

Mark Jones (Vortecpro) is the real deal and does immaculate work.

Up to this point, absolutely every owner of one of his engines is extremely happy with the performance and value and offer vocal strong praise with thanks. He has many engines out there.

Harold Bettes formerly of Superflow is very good friends with Mark and often helps with dyno.

3900 lbs, 555 cu in, 13.5:1 running 10's = YIKES!! wrong builder/wrong combo or sick engine.
I know of more than one PUMP GAS 468 BBC that has broken 9's at 3800 lbs+ in great air.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by pastry_chef

3900 lbs, 555 cu in, 13.5:1 running 10's = YIKES!! wrong builder/wrong combo or sick engine.
I know of more than one PUMP GAS 468 BBC that has broken 9's at 3800 lbs+ in great air.

I have to take full responsibility for that; I am well known locally for my ability to slow these big cars down!

Actually, the quickest index in my association is 10.25 so I haven't had much motivation (or time) to really lean on this combination. I'll need a full cage, too, so it will have to be after I get that done.

You can read a bit more about the history on my car here, if you are interested:

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/fea...lle/index.html



My engine builder is Scott Williams. He seems to know a thing or two about getting a car down the track, as his 3600 lb naturally aspirated 498 cu in '65 Chevelle has been in the 8.20s on a 9" tire:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242851



I suspect he's been too busy to notice that I have been besmirching his good reputation.

K

[TIN TIGR]

haters..wow..the vortec ovals can work real well, and a 10 sec cheap rat aint poo now days..i got one ready for ya right now..pump gas..add a small kit for an easy single digit ride..

the rat is why all the aftermarket pontiac stuff was made..with stock parts, we cant compete..get real with yourselves..gm phucked pontiac over from the early 60's racing ban..

[poison heart]

I'm no expert but I'm not seeing 10 seconds out of that motor

[TIN TIGR]

kid, ima say it like this..you got a lot to learn about the rat, and i leave it at that..

[Polar-Pontiac]

Originally Posted by guccieng

asking that question around here is like whacking a bee hive with a stick!

LOL That's so true.LOL...

[rtanner]

beehive w astick lol.. this is the non pontiac motors in a pontiac section!!!!! the question is legit, im gonna have to spend 3k by the time i get aluminum heads and asociated parts to go 11s w my 455 combo, or 5100 gets a pump gas 454 that can go tens in my combo, and yes oval port bbc heads flow plenty to make 600hp, and yes resized arp rod bolted stock bbc 3\8 bolt rods are way good to 600 hp!!! i think im just gonna get it and put it in my 69z, just leave the 69fb collecting dust for awhile!

[gearbanger]

Originally Posted by rtanner

beehive w astick lol.. this is the non pontiac motors in a pontiac section!!!!! the question is legit, im gonna have to spend 3k by the time i get aluminum heads and asociated parts to go 11s w my 455 combo, or 5100 gets a pump gas 454 that can go tens in my combo, and yes oval port bbc heads flow plenty to make 600hp, and yes resized arp rod bolted stock bbc 3\8 bolt rods are way good to 600 hp!!! i think im just gonna get it and put it in my 69z, just leave the 69fb collecting dust for awhile!

If you would do some searching about combos on this forum you will find plenty of 10 second combos that you can easily build for 5 k. If you want a BBC then that is one thing, but if you want to run 10's then just build a 455 and put a good top end on it, and spend the rest on the chassis and run 10's. You put that big boat anchor in the front of your car and you have already taken a big step back. Cubes are cubes, and the days of Chevy having an advantage over the pontiacs in flow technology are pretty much over. Pontiacs are beating up on Chevys in all classes of racing.

Keep that Pontiac a Pontiac.

[rtanner]

hmm lets see aluminum pontiac heads headers to match cam to match intake to match special head bolts, 3k-3500, nope not seeing it come in at 600hp and 5k dollars sorry math just does not add up, did i mention this is the non pontiac motors in pontiacs area of the board??

[goquick]

Originally Posted by rtanner

hmm lets see aluminum pontiac heads headers to match cam to match intake to match special head bolts, 3k-3500, nope not seeing it come in at 600hp and 5k dollars sorry math just does not add up, did i mention this is the non pontiac motors in pontiacs area of the board??

Does headers come with that bbc? i seen no carb, but he didn't tell you it was a custom built carb for the engine did he. A $1000 custom carb can make a hero out of any engine.
I've seen it time and time again.
Lets price a few parts with better than the bbc's parts;
Rods; $439
Pistons for either engine is what, $450 (these are nice forged pistons,not the brittle fall apart kb's-been there done that)
Use a stock crank, you might have $100 in turning it.
Spend $200 for balancing.
Flat tappet Solid Cam and lifters (regardless of engine brand is the same $ unless a shop is phucking you) $220
CV1 Heads, intake, $3500
add $400 for machine work

That's the prices spent on a 428 with CV1 heads that is running pump gas and running in a 4100 lb car with 3.89 gears that has been turning 10.70's. The car has power windows, brakes, power seats, silly 18" wheels, (it doesn't hook-his best 60' has been a 1.87) a sound system you can hear 5 miles away CLEARLY!, (trunk is amps, 2 huge speakers,back seat is speakers, subwoofers, insane if you ask me)

Now which combo do you want? There are Pontiac combo's out there that in a lighter car would be quicker, but there is the basics. And I can tell you if he's not using the last run of bbc good rods, it's a matter of time the over cycled things start making engine block windows.
Personally, I'd have to see his bbc run that for that money with an out of the box carb in a typical car. But what he isn't telling you is the 3k after the engine you need to spend.