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#61
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That's been a lot of my experience lately for the most part. Even new parts today stating made in the USA are a bit of a misnomer if you pay attention to how that works these days.
So ya just have to roll the dice, buy and use what you can find and cross your fingers. Carry spares for the long road trips and hope things go well. At this point I'm just happy things are still being made at all for these old cars. |
#62
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#63
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Personally, I save the NOS parts for high end (expensive) restorations that need it for one reason or another, not particularly for the reason of reliability per say, because cars like that aren't really driven much at all.
It really just depends on the purpose of the car. Since I daily drive classics, I look more towards reliability, so NOS wouldn't make much sense on consumable parts. So I go a different direction that I explained earlier in this thread, and it would apply to most people here that basically have nice classic cars they enjoy that are not necessarily concours restored stuff. Want reliability? 2 things I've found that work reliably. Either a RobbMC pump that uses good internals, and even offers cheap rebuild kits for easy repair when the time comes. Carry a spare. Or..... get yourself an EFI tank, put a good Walbro pump in the tank with proper feed and return lines and enjoy a more modern fuel system that is used in millions of cars on the roads today. That's about as good as it gets. |
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#64
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This is not my first rodeo with fuel pump failures, just my first recent one where no good stock replacements are available anymore. About 30 years ago I had a fuel pump go while driving my 69 GS Stage1. It started running rough so I tried getting it home and didn't realize it was leaking gas into my oil pan. Needless to say, it took out my bottom end and had to yank the motor. I actually didn't know it could do that. So, yeah, I am not going to trust rubber that's been sitting a shelf for 30+ years for this particular item. With that said, I did pick up a USA made stock replacement that is less than 10 years old with the correct arm. The bird is alive again.
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1968 Firebird 400HO convertible 1971 Trans Am 4-speed, white/blue Last edited by 68bird400HO; 08-25-2023 at 09:00 PM. |
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#65
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I think this is good insight. Polymers deteriorate. Chemical bonds break. Heat and ozone accelerate that. Polymer and elastomer chemistry has advanced a lot in 50 years. Quote:
And forgive me for repeating my rant, but your USA pump suggests the brand knows what a good pump is. 10 years later that same brand decided they would roll over and accept lesser quality when they sourced from a foreign manufacturer. JMO... Mike |
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#66
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Spot on, there's some very high quality items produced in China. If that's what is required, they will do it. But if the company wants cheap and good enough and to keep it cheap by using unskilled workers and limited quality control, you get that also. The problem comes when you can't trust the higher price to be the better item and not just inflated profits on the cheap and nasty item. Many don't know what they sell either.
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#67
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The consumer is why auto parts are sourced from overseas, rather than made from more reliable vendors with better quality parts. Back in the 80s the low dollar parts started working their way into the parts channels.
Back then an X body GM car CV joint was right around $200, the low dollar imports from places like china were $60, Am Gauge was the cheapest priced parts out there, we mechanics called them WHAM GAUGE, cause you're going to get spanked...... What is the average joe going to buy? He can barely afford to make car payments, buy gas, and oil for his car to get back, and forth to work. Naturally he's gonna buy the cheap import part, and hope for the best. I've been in the auto repair field since before I graduated in 1970. This was the beginning of the cheap offshore parts market. There were cheap parts available before then, but most of them were avoided like the plague, and the cheap outlets soon went out of business. JC Whitney, (now Carparts.com), and Warshawskys stuck around longer han they should have, the Spiegel catlogue for car parts..... As median household incomes dropped, and the internet started to be used more by everyone, the only thing that people wanted to know, is how much can I buy that part for, the cheaper the better for them. They'll argue with countermen if a competitors price is a dollar less. Chains started advertising that they'll beat anyones price, That guarantee that they'll beat anyones price, is a serious problem. They'll sell you a part with a 90 day warranty, and people will still buy it, even though it's basically a curbside warranty, if your car makes it past the curb, you own it. It makes me sick to try and sort out formerly quality brands, and prices to get something that will last at least a few years, and most times these parts are going on my own cars, and I hate doing work over because of defective parts. Some people don't care if they have to put in 3 starters before they get one that works. The store with the lowest prices was king, so soon all the legitimate manufacturers started loosing sales, and they had to do something to compete, and they either cheapen their products across all lines, or come out with a economy parts line for price shoppers. The pinch of the middle class with low wages, drove consumers to become their own worst enemies. It's not just car parts, it's everything we buy. The atttude now is, If I can't afford quality, I'll be content with second rate garbage. Rant over. |
The Following User Says Thank You to Sirrotica For This Useful Post: | ||
#68
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I'm sure your real reason is the cost, and many people would agree with you as was pointed out earlier. But in this time of cheap parts being reproduced overseas, things have changed. Case in point, I was once told that the NOS strips for a 69 Judge would not be good to buy because the glue would be dried up and never hold. I proved that theory incorrect too and bought a set that looked and went on perfect about 32 years after they were made. Now they cost me triple what the reproduction stripes would cost but the color shades are correct where the reproduction colors are slightly off. Cliff R is the real guru here and someone to listen to. When Cliff chimed in here a few days ago and echoed the Chinese junk talk and all the problems his many customers have had over the years with these cheap Chinese pumps, that said it all for me. It still is a personal decision, and you make yours and I make mine. I go NOS and wouldn't even think otherwise. What confused me about your comments is your story in our newsletter about searching boneyards to find a date coded voltage regulator for that same car and then rebuilding it. Granted it didn't cost that much but still I thought you wanted everything correct on your 68 Bird? Bottom line is, we agree to disagree about these pumps!! That is all I will say on the subject!! |
#69
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I have a new experience for me. Pulling into the driveway after a cruise I started smelling gas so I parked in the garage and shut down for the day. A couple days later I went to look things over thinking I'd find a leak at the on-line filter or stuck float at least something obvious. I didn't see anything so started up and oh no shut it off noooww as it was spraying from somewhere. After shutting off and having a good look from underneath the steering box was wet and there was a puddle of gas on the floor under the pump. I still didn't know where it was coming from but it was dripping from off the bottom of the pump. I made sure the to carb line was tight at the pump and at a loss I turned the engine over a couple times (with 12V power switched off to HEI) and went back underneath to see what I could and there it was, gas was coming out the seam of the carb body and running down onto the floor. Thank God for no fire, we'd be talking the house too. It wasn't to the headers yet.
I've been running this pump for a couple years now. It is a Carter M4684. A RobbMC has been on my list to do and it has moved to the front of the line now. Be carefull out there. -dale |
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#70
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#71
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This whole Fuel pump thing is frustrating.
I went with the M6907 pump on my 455 with a Cliff-er-ized 68 Q-jet. I have had one or two occasions where it was flooding over. It seemed to self correct on its own. And I still notice nose over issues on hard acceleration. I wanted a more stock look to the car, thus the reason for the carter pump. I also have 1/2 line and RobbMc Fuel 1/2 sending unit. However the more I think on it the more I don't want to live with either of these issues. So it either the RobbMc pump or Tanks Inc for me. But If I go to the work of installing a Tanks Inc then I might as well just install a FiTech or Sniper unit. |
#72
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With a proper bypass regulator involved in the install, you don't necessarily have to though. If your car runs well and you're not having issues with the carb, getting the fuel system sorted may provide the reliability and drivability you want while retaining the carburetor. You can always add EFI (throttle body or port injection) later on if you desire.
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
#73
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#74
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Is this an option-
Running a carb….in tank pump, using one of those LS or whatever fuel filters that internally regulate to 50 some odd psi, but have the return built into the filter itself, then deadhead the line to the carb with another regulator? One fuel line running length of the car as opposed to two, deadheaded, but the fuel still has a return.
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costs too much |
#75
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To get the desired outcome you'd have to run another return line from the regulator, defeating the purpose of running the "Corvette style" return regulator/filter. You want two filters in your fuel system. Typically a sock type or large element 100 micron filter in front of the pump. Typically a sock for in-tank and a 100 micron filter if external fuel pump. You then want a 10 micron filter before the regulator. If you want to do the deadhead style system, you can still do the bypass regulator back near the tank, with a 10 micron filter in front of it, then run your dead head line to the engine.
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
#76
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https://www.bopengineering.com/A_Pon...ooling_1.shtml I could dig it up and send it to you if you want. I replaced it with a RobbMc because I was running out of fuel with my combo. If you have a stock-ish motor it should be adequate, especially if it's just temporary until you get the RobbMc pump.
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70 TA, 467 cid IAII, Edelbrock D-port heads, 9.94:1, Butler HR 236/242 @ .050, 520/540 lift, 112 LSA, Ray Klemm calibrated Q-jet, TKX (2.87 1st/.81 OD), 3.31 rear https://youtube.com/shorts/gG15nb4FWeo?feature=share |
#77
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I have a carter M6122 new in box from 2014. Says made in USA. I think I bought it for a '78 TA I had but never used it. It will not fit my '74 TA due to the line locations.
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#78
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All Carten now in China , Amazon has USA older stock avail, got a few 6907s USA $65.00 & 6122 $25.00
Last edited by chrisp; 02-01-2024 at 09:37 AM. Reason: add |
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