#201  
Old 11-17-2021, 04:01 PM
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Formulabruce Formulabruce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhutton View Post
Evercoat Rage Ultra sands a whole lot easier than the Gold.

Don
X2! I agree

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  #202  
Old 11-17-2021, 05:54 PM
JUDGE3 JUDGE3 is offline
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Default air door skin crimper

so here it is. I didn't gain much using it vs hand and dolley. I should have known the learning curve on using it would be to great for first time important doors.

$125 or $130 bucks to. I have some crimp dings along the edges. going to have to use filler again. I had a chance to buy a set of 1973 Firebird doors for $350 and minor dings and one small rust hole. that was early on and I didn't want to drive out of town. huge mistake! they were at elmos pontiac parts in missouri.

I'm pretty frustrated. I feel like It went even better than expected with quarter panels, frame, front clip fitment, everything! the doors are totally holding me up and are a ton of work. if the darn doors went as well as the rest of the car, I would be driving it done right now.

I can't go sub-standard at this point, not my style, and the rest of the car is to darn good to compromise. i'm going to have to weld some wire again to get decent gaps. gaps are a real pet peeve of mine.

I was worried about the outer wheelhouse replacement and quarters, only to wind up struggling and frustrated with doors. ugh.


Last edited by JUDGE3; 12-20-2023 at 10:56 AM.
  #203  
Old 12-26-2021, 04:01 PM
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Default RESTORATION REBOOT (ye ha)

So i've decided to retire next may. i'm 60.

my progress had hit a loud thud over this last year with so many things absorbing my time away from my shop. this changes everything! so i'm looking at it as restarting but now with a rolling restoration. also with being in the body work phase starting end of may i'll be able to keep all the dusty work outdoors. what a change it will be to have all the time I want to enjoy working on it.

the off time from it was not a total waste, I accumulated all the final parts needed and then some. I decided I want to use a volt gauge so I got that in from speedhut, didnt want to chance them not having the same style to match my set.

pulled the car out christmas day, an unusual 74 degrees christmas here in kansas. hopefully my Chiefs will go to their 4 years straight homefield afc championship and 3rd straight superbowl!!


i'm better off with this 2nd set of door skins. learned a lot via mistakes on the first set. regaining confidence I can fine tune em better this time.


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  #204  
Old 12-27-2021, 01:29 AM
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Having been there and signed the second gen cars off the car hauler, I can tell you the fit and gaps were pretty much horrid.
That said, due to the way they were put together, most trunks fit well.
Yours will be fine. Make sure you enjoy it! Value starts when you turn that Ignition key !

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  #205  
Old 12-27-2021, 11:15 AM
JUDGE3 JUDGE3 is offline
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Default perfectionist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Formulabruce View Post
Having been there and signed the second gen cars off the car hauler, I can tell you the fit and gaps were pretty much horrid.
That said, due to the way they were put together, most trunks fit well.
Yours will be fine. Make sure you enjoy it! Value starts when you turn that Ignition key !
I battle a couple things, i'm an aircraft guy, so overkill on car panel fitment, and i'm a by nature perfectionist. my dad always said "its a curse and a bless". I like what you said, I need to hear that! suprisingly this time on the doors that was actually something to learn, accept more of an average fit. looked at em yesterday and thought.......heck most of this is good enough! I couldnt believe the quarter panels were easier than the door skins all said and done.

I'm shooting for very nice driver quality. when I see a classic on the road that looks so darn straight and perfect I tend to feel I have to have it that way. but then I realize, these cars are getting restored waaaay above what they were new!

my brand new 1980 Trans Am experience, 18 years old: dealer called, (had ordered the car) said the car was in , they were however investigating a tick in the engine. was so excited while dad drove me up to get it. walked in, car up on the lift, oil pan off, crank on floor, rods hanging down. heart sank. dad was bugged, dealer gave some sort of discount to continue getting the car. so we did. I drove my buddies up there that night after closing and showed em thru the glass garage doors, my car up there rods hanging down. sucked! and it was the gutless 301 non turbo to boot. they put new bearings in it and I never had an engine problem.

the trans am decal on drivers fender was so crooked it was hard to believe. made em replace it. the air conditioning never worked well. the cruise control quit working, blinker arm broke, the interior door arm close pulled out, (both doors), drivers door hinge wore out quick, the cassete player quit, had it fixed twice then gave up, the console lid covering detached, the qjet carb had to be rebuilt, all i can recall but probably was more. all this in just under 4 years.

guess what? I sold it to cheap, loan wasnt even paid off, but was glad to see it go! get this: huge mistake, cant belive my money saving dad let me buy it: interest rate on the new TA loan was 14.2% ! My payment was $203 a month! my insurance was $152 a month!

I have to add to save face here: I told dad i wanted a 1977 or 78 Trans am used, and that there were 7 or 8 up at the pontiac dealer lot and I liked several of em. ( i knew these had 400's and I liked the looks a lot better) soon as we got up there dad said, "gonna spend that much may as well but a new one" well, he was steering me away from the 400 trying to keep me outta racing etc and i didnt realize it.

and I promptly went from that to what I always wanted: an ORIGINAL 1969 carousel red 4 speed ram air 3 GTO JUDGE! to this day that was my favorite all time car, and most fun iv'e ever had with a car. holy smokes I was beat up by my buddies for that gutless 301 TA and went to being a hero lol. it ran 13.80s all day, no headers, and I was always to scared to "power shift it" that is, nvr let off the accelarator between shifts. back in the 80s 13's was quick on the street. if you ran 12's that was really something, and 11's was darn near full race.

sigh, another good memories rambling thread. ha

pic of my 69 Judge. TA is in there just before selling it. I went thru tires and clutches and loved every second of it.


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  #206  
Old 01-01-2022, 12:56 PM
JUDGE3 JUDGE3 is offline
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Default ......more to the story

I left out an important part to the above story.........my first car is the pictured 67 GTO. bought it for $700 bucks in 1977. original engine was gone but had a nice running base 400 in it. drove it all thru high school. I didnt realize all this then of course, dad could no doubt see the direction I was going. I remember real well going to him and letting him know I wanted to put a new engine in my 67 GTO. he of course said why, and I retorted "more power, a 455 with 400 heads and a RAIV cam"........he shot me down said I would just blow up engines and get in trouble. (right im sure) so then I said I want to get a 77 or 78 trans am. that started the above story. and guiding me to the 301 new trans am.

when I was in high school working at wendys hamburgers (where my cheeseburger addiction began) a manager bought a brand new 1978 blue/blue velour interior/t top/4 speed/snowflake wheeled/pwr window Trans Am and I loved it. those cars were more than all the rage back then.

thing is having the 301 TA all that time just made me want power even more. and a life long run thats still going began!

Had a good friend with a 67 at that time, he did the above 455/400 heads/raiv cam. gas was cheap then and that high compression really makes em go. anyway he blew the doors off another friends (chevy guy) 67 camaro that had a nice small block/4 speed that we considered very fast at the time. man was I impressed with my buddies pontiac! another good friend bought his 67 GTO years ago and still owns it today.


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  #207  
Old 09-04-2022, 04:20 PM
JUDGE3 JUDGE3 is offline
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Default Drove it today

No rear tag on it so I drove it a couple miles up and down our dirt roads. gosh it rides so good. I wanted to lay into it bad good thing I was on dirt lol.

its been to darn hot to get to going on it, but now we are getting very close to cooler weather. I'm going to get hard core on it and get it done. hope to paint it next summer.

i'm down to final door weld and fit. the doors as turns out has been the hardest part of all of it! on my second set of door skins. I was going to find some good original doors but now i'm stubborn mad and gonna make these come out good.

sure tired of seeing my beloved cragar ss wheels in the boxs.


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  #208  
Old 09-04-2022, 07:25 PM
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HWYSTR455 HWYSTR455 is offline
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LOVE the stories, history, shows true passion!

My first 'new' car was a '79 Formula WS6 car, auto (403), Nocturnal, camel deluxe, Fisher tops, power everything. It was a test-drive car, had like 1100 miles or so, paid like $8300 out the door. 8 mo later started smoking, and for whatever reason, they removed the engine, sent it to GM for diag, so they could determine if continuing with using the 403 was plausible. Came back rebuilt, original to car, and it was the fastest new bird in the region. Loved that car.

Turned 60 this past Jan, setting up for retirement, decided to go thru my 71 LeMans, do a restomod tribute of a 70 Judge, one of my bucket list cars. Finished that not long ago, may have seen the build thread. Due to a life-threatening illness this past Jan, decided to step up my retirement plan, got out of hospital and put the house on the market. New house being built in a more rural area, so hope to have my workshop built soon after closing on the new place, which is set for Sept 20. Can't wait!

Car I've owned since Feb of '81, a '71 Formula 4-speed, (dubbed HWYSTR *tags*, a terror over time with a reputation), which received T/A front clip over the years, is now next on the list, and will do a restomod tribute '73 SD Brewster car. It's for my son, but will get some behind the wheel time to iron it out. It's at paint/body now, hoping to be done in Oct. Might have to assemble in the existing 2 car of new house since the workshop isn't built, but so be it.

Just put a 495 stroker Olds in the 442, was pressured to get it running prior to selling the house to move, needs some attention/finalization, that too will prob have to be done in existing 2 car garage until the workshop is built. Whew. That's my daughter's car, but she's carrying her 2nd, due in Feb, so have some time. Car really needs an OD, too.

Aaaaand, still have some finalization items for the Judge tribute car, which is currently parked at my son's house in hibernation. Uhg. 7 year project, have a lot of blood sweat & tears in it, it's absolutely eating at me to drive. Living out of boxes sux.

All in good time! have about another 3-4 years of full time work left, but things seemed to be going in the right direction. Can't ween the BOP blood out of me, will be at it until I drop!

Back in the odd-even days, had a trunk full of tags, so didn't matter what day it was, odd or even, was able to buy gas (79 formy). Dyslexia would set in sometimes, would wait in line, only to find out once I got up there it was the wrong tag for the day! Uhg! Sooo many stories...
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  #209  
Old 09-05-2022, 11:19 AM
JUDGE3 JUDGE3 is offline
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Default goin good but taken to long

HWYSTR455, hope your health scare is completely behind you and all is great. wow, your abilities and knowledge is far beyond mine. lotta very nice cars. with power. gotta have the power.

its funny but really fun how retirement plays out. once it occurs your ready to do it, you realize why wait.

about all iv'e done is put a fuel pressure gauge on. I use a stock mechanical pump but I just like seeing whats goin on.

so I really like this holley but the engine is kinda a mess right now, sprayed carb cleaner and have noticed the anodized finish has faded away bad. anyone know if theres a spray on anodize stuff to refresh the look of the holley?


Last edited by JUDGE3; 12-20-2023 at 10:55 AM.
  #210  
Old 09-05-2022, 01:00 PM
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Thank you, it was double pneumonia, literally almost died twice, and kid you not, swear the hospital was trying to kill me. No food and water for the first 3 days, and the doctors constantly telling me they didn't expect me to live. Also said I would be on O2 for the rest of my life, which thankfully I didn't believe. Could write a book about that experience, would make a great horror movie too. Was very traumatic, and am certain it was Devine intervention that saved my life.

There are places that will restore the finish on a Holley carb, but it IMO isn't worth it. The OE coating isn't durable at all, and most restoration shops use the same coating/process. So after X period of time, it will just look the same as it does now. I think it's a 'zinc wash', or something like that, maybe someone else can chime in.



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1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
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1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
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  #211  
Old 09-16-2022, 04:38 PM
JUDGE3 JUDGE3 is offline
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Default New Bezel #2

Its to darn hot yet to get to welding and doing bodywork, but eager to get to going again. supposed to be high 90's here all next week again. so I decided to complete the new version of the dash bezel. indoor project outta the heat.

I snagged this excellent condition formula bezel for 60 bucks. I had also decided to use a volt gauge and thought the right side 2 hole bezel without the option plate looked a bit empty on that side.

bet 70-81 firebird folks have not seen a 3 hole bezel before. I added 1 hole for the volt gauge, measured out nice putting the new hole centered over the cigar lighter hole making it look like it belongs. surprisingly this bezel had the bird emblem located exactly where I needed it.

as before, simply used a hole saw in my drill to create the hole. just have to spin slowly. easy.

I think I can apply the engine turned face in one shot this time. then morph all my gauges etc to the new and last modded bezel. maybe when i'm done cool weather will be here.

Speedhut gauges, ordered the volt gauge later. I'm going to place the dimmer switch in the option plate this time. one things sure as iv'e got older, have much less tolerance for the hot weather.


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  #212  
Old 09-20-2022, 03:58 PM
JUDGE3 JUDGE3 is offline
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Default Bezel #2

Iv'e become very proficient at applying the metal foil engine turned face. done it enough times now.

old vs new pic.

new one has added volt gauge, option plate that I will use, properly located 'bird.
I like the increased population of the bezel. and I needed to better comb all the wires behind it anyway.


Last edited by JUDGE3; 12-20-2023 at 10:55 AM.
  #213  
Old 09-25-2022, 06:38 PM
JUDGE3 JUDGE3 is offline
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Default Re focus time finally

All in and done. time to get back to the meat n taters of bodywork. (ugh)

blue backlight to go with the blue Trans Am stripe, retro sound stereo has blue backlight as well. so does the console shift backlight.

Tach has built in shift light (takes place of a clock) can set it any way you want in the rpm spread including spread of all lights. thus no need for any color coding of the gauges like originals. although speedhut will color code anything u want. I do wish I would have had a "firebird" or "455" script in the body of the tach. even the volt gauge has a set how you want low and high warning light.

dusted off the engine a bit, time to go on a roll.........


Last edited by JUDGE3; 12-20-2023 at 10:55 AM.
  #214  
Old 10-30-2022, 04:29 PM
JUDGE3 JUDGE3 is offline
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Default Overbudget per murphys law

after getting back at it enjoyably hard core and finishing up the final door fit I decided to add up my pile of receipts and see where i'm at. 4 years ago the goal was done at $20, 000. uh huh right. i'm right around $23,400 already in it including the purchase price. but this includes all my new parts stored for completion. the money here forward will be paint and supplies. I have literally everything to complete.

the purchase is what saved me though. bought for $3,000, sold $1,500 worth of the original drivetrain allowing me to begin with just $1,500 in it and a complete car.

"new" goal due to insane inflation is to bump close to $30,000 and be done. There never done I know.

none the less feel pretty good about where i'm at cost wise. i have it insured for $60,000 thru Grundys. i'm confidant it will be worth more than I have in it, thats the goal.

had a much better plan to get thru the final door fit. after scrapping one set of new door skins I got these right. still welded some gap corrections but much more carefully. and was not after perfect just nicely acceptable.

As show car folks have noted, but does not bother me at all, the center body line on the reproduction sheetmetal is more crisp. fenders/door skin/quarters are all new reproduction so the center line all matches the crisp line though.

finally...........moving on to true body and paint work. yeha!


Last edited by JUDGE3; 12-20-2023 at 10:54 AM.
  #215  
Old 10-30-2022, 05:32 PM
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HWYSTR455 HWYSTR455 is offline
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My motto is to never submit yourself to the cost-pain UNTIL you have had some time driving it after finished! Heheh!

You got away light on cost, you don't want to hear my numbers, and, it's still in paint jail!

You are being modest on the 'crisp' aspect, that looks fantastic!


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  #216  
Old 11-01-2022, 10:47 AM
JUDGE3 JUDGE3 is offline
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Default and so it begins

mercy. bet iv'e had the doors off 50 times.

but with that being the case i'm not concerned with making any marks as to final re-installing them. I can ball park it pretty easy now and a couple loosen ups and iv'e got it. I definetly will NOT be removing the hinges from the cowl though. the primer under them gets to stay put.

starting on final fillers and primers I already need to go get some more supplies.

my quarter panel skins I cut from full quarters need very little filler! I have a very thin coat of micro fiberglass filler over the weld seam now and need just a bit for final contour.

I have this polyester high build i'm going to use. have to study up and see how best to appy it.


Last edited by JUDGE3; 12-20-2023 at 10:54 AM.
  #217  
Old 11-02-2022, 12:34 AM
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Formulabruce Formulabruce is offline
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My Buddy Allan and I finished up the mock up of his 1970 Formula 4 speed this summer and then "shopped It" as seen to get some finish and paint only quotes. ALL the sheet metal is original except the Pass side door skin, which is a NOS piece from the late 80's. We glued it and took our time ( 45 min on the glue) but did each hammer over together. It came out perfect, but note the body line is fairly crisp. This compares very much to your work, which looks great.
When you block, block to a line, not over it. I put tape on the style line to prevent over sanding it, or making it too sharp and moving. I love the evercoat filler primer. Use powder for guide coat.
Once you think you nailed the flat areas and style line, clean it and I like to use my "sure shot" sprayer with kleen strip wax and grease remover ( metal can, not soapy stuff) This will give you a 1 min glimpse of what the clear coat might show and is harmless to the paint. Good luck!
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  #218  
Old 11-02-2022, 06:15 AM
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I recall a number of debates regarding the body lines, being either too 'soft' or too 'sharp'. And those discussions spiraled downward in to low-laying fog without any specific consensus. Like "How do you know?" "How can you tell?".

So for me, personally, I like them sharp. So hopefully I made enough of that point to the guy who's doing mine now.

I vaguely recall something about how cars with the horizontal door guards tend to give a better reference, but can't remember the specifics of that. (More coffee is needed)


EDIT: Maybe some assembly line pics would be able to provide a reference? Dunno...

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1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
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1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
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  #219  
Old 11-02-2022, 10:00 AM
JUDGE3 JUDGE3 is offline
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Default high cost motivation

I shopped it also from this point. the body work paint and all that gos with it is hard work and expensive. price is what pushs me to do it myself.

had a restoration shop that I wasn't overly impressed with come out to estimate finish up and paint. estimate was $26,000. ugh, to much. way to much. 15 was my wishfull thinking but I, like others was scared of shop jail anyway. and that thought of knowing they won't care to do it right as much as me.

I went to the restoration shop, had lots of neat cars there but I was shocked at what looked like single stage enamel paint jobs and plenty of orange peel. red flag. shop was not busy bee with workers either. red flag. owner was a nice fella could tell he knew what he was doing but overall and price was a no go for me. thats more than I have in the entire car! thats where the get backwards on em happens and in turn scared to drive em. not for me.

s

  #220  
Old 11-15-2022, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUDGE3 View Post
passenger door gap welding/fit done today yeha. both doors done.

was able to complete it much quicker than the drivers side due to knowing the best technique this time around.

gonna easily be in final bodywork mode by January 1. that's gonna take awhile to but all the welding/fitment big stuff will be behind me after 4 years of it! be moving on to a much different realm of the restoration with the end game in sight uh huh!
these are very nice gaps . i am going crazy tiring to get mine right

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