[unruhjonny]

I was reviewing the thread on Dennis's beautiful Formula, and one comment on the first page got me thinking about something I have considered...

I have considered retaining a rear seat speaker in my car.

My car didn't leave the factory with one, which means it would have had a plain vinyl covered rear package tray, and a single speaker in the dash.
(iirc the 1970-1971 dual speaker cars recieved the perforated rear package tray.)

Since I wasn't fortunate enough to be around when all the really good cars were new, could someone chime in on the following two questions?


Q1: If a customer came in with a (oh lets say) 70 Firebird with an AM-mono radio, and wanted to get any sort of "stereo" system put in, would the rear package tray been changed out, or would the regular tray be retained, and just a speaker hole been cut, and speaker cover been added?

(I have previously understood that a 'dealer added' rear speaker would have entailed retaining the original rear package tray.)


Q2: At large shows, are points deducted for a "dealer added" rear speaker?

[Norwood]

I'm sure that was up to the customer to decide

[superdutybob]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

I was reviewing the thread on Dennis's beautiful Formula, and one comment on the first page got me thinking about something I have considered...

I have considered retaining a rear seat speaker in my car.

My car didn't leave the factory with one, which means it would have had a plain vinyl covered rear package tray, and a single speaker in the dash.
(iirc the 1970-1971 dual speaker cars recieved the perforated rear package tray.)

Since I wasn't fortunate enough to be around when all the really good cars were new, could someone chime in on the following two questions?


Q1: If a customer came in with a (oh lets say) 70 Firebird with an AM-mono radio, and wanted to get any sort of "stereo" system put in, would the rear package tray been changed out, or would the regular tray be retained, and just a speaker hole been cut, and speaker cover been added?

(I have previously understood that a 'dealer added' rear speaker would have entailed retaining the original rear package tray.)


Q2: At large shows, are points deducted for a "dealer added" rear speaker?

Can't answer on #1

At the T/A Nationals, speakers are free as long as they are in the factory location.

[Formulabruce]

Having done this at a dealership I can say it depends on the year the car was brought in for the "stereo". Most times the Dealership parts counter price alone on a "stock" upgrade is high . Some options were available as a dealer optional "kit". Am radio with a fader was one, with a rear speaker. A Stock type stereo we put the speaker behind the driver, ordered a Delco speaker kit, and the wiring and would put in a Stock stereo radio if requested. Front would be left and rear would be right, and thats how the "bass"" was made in early stereo radios, the "bass" was in the right channel. Later in the 70's many dealers would stock the optional stereo and cassette combo, cut your early dash for you and install with a plate. Dealers were not bound by many rules except that if it messes with a warranty, the dealer eats it. NO dealers were "branches" of GM, so they were in business to make a profit. We bought AC Declo parts ( Tune up parts mostly) often from a local parts AC DELCO store cheaper then GM would sell them to us. Almost Always the spare tire was a question on F bodys with speaker requests...

[unruhjonny]

/\ /\ That is a great reply - thank you for sharing your first-hand knowledge!

[Transamric]

On the rear package tray type, quite sure '70-71 std. interior cars got the plain painted smooth-ish cardboard tray while deluxe interior optioned cars got the perforated tray. Whether a rear speaker was (factory) installed didn't change the tray type.
So, base 'Birds would have always had the smooth-ish tray & Esprits would have always had the perforated part,...barring factory mis-builds.

[unruhjonny]

oh?

i had understood that the perforated tray was installed on std interior cars *IF* a two speaker radio was opted;
and that the metal speaker cover first appeared in 72.

[giles]

Originally Posted by Transamric

On the rear package tray type, quite sure '70-71 std. interior cars got the plain painted smooth-ish cardboard tray while deluxe interior optioned cars got the perforated tray. Whether a rear speaker was (factory) installed didn't change the tray type.
So, base 'Birds would have always had the smooth-ish tray & Esprits would have always had the perforated part,...barring factory mis-builds.

Ric, FWIW, my '71 standard interior 04A Norwood car was built with AM/FM mono and rear speaker option. When I bought it in 12/76 it had a mesh tray, pre-hacked of course to add aftermarket speakers. I've always believed '70/'71 rear speaker = mesh tray regardless of interior. In '76 you could not get an NOS mesh tray from GM service parts. I was relieved when the '79 anniversary car came out and it had a dual speaker mesh tray. I ordered one of those parts and my car still has it to this day.

[Transamric]

Ok guys, I stand corrected on that one that at least some (if not most) were built the way you're describing. However, of the 60+ '70-73's I've owned or parted, never had one equipped that way.
Of course, being up here in the NW means most all the '70-71's have been Van Nuys built, which raises the question if this was another build difference between the two plants, or just sloppy build quality from VN.
I'll have to scour my books to see if there was a factory notation about this.
Thanks for keeping me straight.

[unruhjonny]

I am giving this older thread of mine a gargantuan bump rather than make a new one.

I have long suspected (and this thread seemed to confirm it) that if I took my nearly-new 1970 Firebird Formula with a single speaker radio into a dealership in 1971 or 1972, that a kit would have been ordered (group 9.665 #988854 or similar) which would have included:
- 6x9 rear speaker
- speaker bracket
- some wires
- a speaker cover
- a speaker opening template.

I have suspected that a non-perforated rear package tray would have been removed and cut open to permit installation of the new rear speaker cover, and a replacement radio of some sort would have been installed to compliment these parts.

This (and a myriad of other garbage) has been floating around in the back of my mind as I have contemplated going one of three routes on my car:

1) leave it as built with a single speaker AM radio; improbable, but I have a radio

2) install a dual cone front speaker, and use a two speaker OE radio

3) install a two speaker radio along with parts as though the car had a dealer installed rear speaker accessory kit.

2b) or 3b) same as above, but with a vintage aftermarket dual post cassette stereo installed in a way that would permit an afternoon to put it back to OE correct.
(today, I am heavily leaning towards option "3b")

I re-read this thread, and it reads from the following quote that possibly my initial query wasn't clear enough:

Almost Always the spare tire was a question on F bodys with speaker requests...

I had never considered putting two rear speakers in my car which would make it a three speaker setup, or negate the front dash speaker);
I now have five 1970-CL wheels, and an early 1970's rear jack assembly, so a full sized spare and that jack are going to be in my car.

As proof that I never really dropped this matter, and that I never really came to a clear decision, a number of years ago I bought a dual cone front speaker from Classic Industries;
If my memory serves me, it had a note that I only found a long while after purchasing, that it wasn't supposed to be used with a grounded radio setup. Bummer.
I also purchased everything to do the legitimate rear speaker setup...
So I have options...

Then I recently found an ebay auction (or rather two) with a GM accessory kit;
It appears to be for a full model car, and the plug looks like it's for a 1978+ application (which would have had a three part radio plug) - see attached images.

I guess the only real question right now is:

Does anyone reading this believe that if a GM accessory rear speaker package was ordered for my car, that the rear package tray would have been removed and exchanged for the perforated style?

[Formulabruce]

Rather than quote myself from 4+ years ago, I will try to add some info to this.
The pics above are 77+ for sure.
The radios back then used 10 ohm speakers ( some 8)
That said; use this link, and READ the paragraph about Ohms just below the pictures on the front page.
http://turnswitch.com/speakers.htm
Fitment. A stock 6x9 in its Pass side location with a much needed "under cover" will surely be in contact with a spare tire that is 26 inches tall.
The mesh used in 70 on the package tray ( my '71 had it too) was Not ever substituted for a newer style cardboard unit. The mesh already had the speaker holes in them, which are visible through the rear window.
Turnswitch ( above link) does retrofit AM, AM/FM, and AM/FM stereo radios with newer tuner and amp and inputs for MP3/ USB and even blue tooth that are hidden. They also will run new technology higher watt speakers. So you could use that stock radio as a really nice modern radio and not even think about "switching it back in an afternoon" . More time to drive it!
PS. I have used "turnswitch" for a stock am/FM stereo radio upgrade and a dual front speaker. I have been Very impressed with the quality. The flip tuner still works too. Great product they put out, and newer 4 ohm speakers make this a win win.
PPSS.. 1 wire speakers used on am radio cars... UGH. Even with 2 condensors ( coil and fuse box) it was almost impossible to get rid of the engine ignition noise. If you Drove a car with this set up across rail road tracks in a city with street cars or electric rail system , you could kiss the radio signal goodbye for a while ( like and underpass, but more noise! .
addendum. The "fader" and rear speaker was a cheap popular add on( dealer install) for Am radios, very popular for cars going to drive -ins when they started transmitting the audio, vs a window speaker.

[unruhjonny]

@ Bruce - thank you VERY much for speaking up again.

About this:

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

... Fitment. A stock 6x9 in its Pass side location with a much needed "under cover" will surely be in contact with a spare tire that is 26 inches tall.
The mesh used in 70 on the package tray ( my '71 had it too) was Not ever substituted for a newer style cardboard unit...

I am wondering you have understood the reverse of what I am talking about on these two points.

I will not put a speaker in the rear passenger side;
That was never my intent.
My intend, if adding a rear speaker would be to place it on the drivers side, as it would have been installed at the Norwood plant - along with the rear speaker loom.

I have a plain rear dash cover;
My car is a standard interior car (As I type this, I realize I did not clarify this point), so the reproduction I have purchased is not the perforated style.
I have understood to this point that the perforated rear dash cover was only used on cars with either deluxe interior or a factory installed rear speaker.

So unless anyone believes that a dealer would have (as standard procedure in the early 1970's) ordered a replacement perforated rear dash cover when installing an accessory rear speaker for a single speaker car, I had intended to use a 1972-1981 rear speaker cover, and cut a hole in my new rear dash cover that matches the hole in the used (and now warped and crusty) one that I installed in my car several decades ago.

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

... The radios back then used 10 ohm speakers ( some 8)

I am not sure when GM stopped using these ohm speakers, I recently opted to return Poineer speakers I bought for my '92 Chev truck, and buy new GM replacement speakers, so that they were the correct ohm rating, and wouldn't possibly goober up the factory radio setup.
I don't need any fancy booming stereo, as long as it makes some music I should be fine.

Also worth noting is that I was running for the last while in my car a period correct AM/FM stereo I bought off ebay... which was also the reason I joined eBay, and it was my first eBay/online purchase - back in 1999!
I signed up and watched auctions till I could snatch one up at $50usd!

lol - oh how times have changed!!

[Formulabruce]

I guess I assumed you had the mesh( deluxe interior)
The rear speaker wire ( on a am radio) ran down the pass side wire gutter and into the trunk on the pass side along with a trunk release wire ( if equipped).
I seem to recall the wire being blue. Stereos had Blue and blue with black stripe IIRC.
Good luck!

[unruhjonny]

yes, I have the wiring for it.

I even recently got a better behind the dash wire retainer!

Thanks