#1  
Old 09-05-2020, 11:18 AM
NeighborsComplaint's Avatar
NeighborsComplaint NeighborsComplaint is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Elgin
Posts: 2,468
Default Cost to swap a set of headers ... wow.

Called a local muffler shop hoping to have them swap a set of headers out. Mine have lost their luster over the years and I came across a great deal on replacements with a superior ceramic coat job. He told me to bring the car by Friday (yesterday) and they would take care of it.

When I arrived, I told the owner it was a swap of identical headers, same manufacturer and model with no interference issues and brought gaskets and new header bolts also. He declined to come outside to look at the car and asked if I wanted to wait or leave the car. I said "I'd like to know the approx. cost before I do either." The guy tells me $350.00 and I just told him "Really? That sounds like an I don't want to bother with this job price. I thought you wanted to do this." and walked out the door.

The last time I was in they only charged me $150 labor to install my complete Flowmaster system including welding the mufflers, header extensions and tips.

__________________
Triple Black 1971 GTO
  #2  
Old 09-05-2020, 11:40 AM
ZeGermanHam's Avatar
ZeGermanHam ZeGermanHam is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,924
Default

$350 sounds reasonable to me. Getting headers out and in can be a time-consuming ordeal, and I'd think it would take 3-4 hours of labor plus tax. Where I live, labor is often around $100/hr.

__________________

1966 Pontiac GTO (restoration thread)
1998 BMW 328is (track rat)
2023 Subaru Crosstrek Limited (daily)
View my photos: Caught in the Wild

Last edited by ZeGermanHam; 09-05-2020 at 11:46 AM.
  #3  
Old 09-05-2020, 11:46 AM
bdk1976 bdk1976 is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 713
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint View Post
Called a local muffler shop hoping to have them swap a set of headers out. Mine have lost their luster over the years and I came across a great deal on replacements with a superior ceramic coat job. He told me to bring the car by Friday (yesterday) and they would take care of it.

When I arrived, I told the owner it was a swap of identical headers, same manufacturer and model with no interference issues and brought gaskets and new header bolts also. He declined to come outside to look at the car and asked if I wanted to wait or leave the car. I said "I'd like to know the approx. cost before I do either." The guy tells me $350.00 and I just told him "Really? That sounds like an I don't want to bother with this job price. I thought you wanted to do this." and walked out the door.

The last time I was in they only charged me $150 labor to install my complete Flowmaster system including welding the mufflers, header extensions and tips.

If it’s such a simple job then why not DIY?

The first/last time I installed headers on a pontiac I spent a ton of time cranking down bolts - some of them 1/8 turn at a time with a modified wrench. I’d probably pass on the job for $150 as well.

  #4  
Old 09-05-2020, 11:53 AM
leeklm's Avatar
leeklm leeklm is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 1,747
Default

If i was running a business, not sure i would want to swap a set of Pontiac headers for much less

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

__________________
68 Firebird-- Street/Strip - 400/461 Eagle Forged Bottom End & Ross Flat top pistons. KRE 325 CFM D port, Ultradyne 263/271 @.050, .4267 lift. Crower Solid roller lifters and 1.65 stainless rockers. Quickfuel 1000 on Torker2 intake and 2" open spacer. Hedman 1.75" headers. TH400 w/brake. Ford 9" w/3.80 gears & 28x9 Hoosier pro bracket drag radial. Best ET: 1.35 60ft, 6.29 @ 107.20 mph, 9.99 @132.33 mph. 3,300 race weight
  #5  
Old 09-05-2020, 12:03 PM
PontiacJim1959 PontiacJim1959 is offline
Suspended
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Gastonia, NC
Posts: 492
Default

Someone is still living back in the 1960's. My guess is that once the swap was made, the shop worker who did the swap was going to feel he didn't charge enough for all the aggravation.

  #6  
Old 09-05-2020, 01:39 PM
tom s tom s is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: long beach ca usa
Posts: 18,764
Default

I would not do them for almost any price and I have a lift.Tom

  #7  
Old 09-05-2020, 04:16 PM
NeighborsComplaint's Avatar
NeighborsComplaint NeighborsComplaint is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Elgin
Posts: 2,468
Default

When I was younger and more able, I installed my own, but installing without a lift is an exercise in futility.

I took these Flowtechs off to clean and buff them up about 5 years ago when I had access to a lift. It took me all of an hour to remove and reinstall them by myself. They threaded right up from below and the bolts were all accessible with a box end wrench. with a bit of savvy, you learn the you can remove the front wheels and lower the car on the lift to ease the reach to loosen and tighten the bolts which cuts the time in half.

$350 is a ridiculous amount of money for an hour's work.

__________________
Triple Black 1971 GTO

Last edited by NeighborsComplaint; 09-05-2020 at 04:24 PM.
  #8  
Old 09-05-2020, 05:19 PM
ZeGermanHam's Avatar
ZeGermanHam ZeGermanHam is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,924
Default

If it's truly an hour's worth of work, then yes, $350 would be high.

But if it's only an hour's worth of work, I'd just do it myself. It'll take more time out of your day to deal with dropping off and picking up the car at the shop than to just in your garage.

Personally, I don't think I could do a header swap in an hour, but that's just me.

__________________

1966 Pontiac GTO (restoration thread)
1998 BMW 328is (track rat)
2023 Subaru Crosstrek Limited (daily)
View my photos: Caught in the Wild
  #9  
Old 09-05-2020, 10:22 PM
NeighborsComplaint's Avatar
NeighborsComplaint NeighborsComplaint is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Elgin
Posts: 2,468
Default

Unfortunately, most shops assume headers are a CF to install, having installed large tube headers designed with ease of installation a lowest priority. These FlowTechs are 1-7/8" street headers that are designed logically with accessible bolts and zero fitment issues. If all headers were made like these, they would not get the bad rap they do.

At my age, I would rather pay a reasonable amount to have them installed. I have a buddy who works at a transmission shop and will have to duck in there after hours when the boss is gone and pay him cash. I hesitate to do this as it is a long drive in heavy traffic in a really crappy location just off the expressway if you get my drift.

__________________
Triple Black 1971 GTO
  #10  
Old 09-06-2020, 06:09 PM
ta man ta man is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Clinton,Ontario,Canada
Posts: 5,348
Default

I never bitch about paying someone to do a job I can't or won't do myself. $350 is reasonable. Or pay your buddy whatever and use his bosses shop and hope nothing goes wrong.

__________________

466 Mike Voycey shortblock, 310cfm SD KRE heads, SD "OF 2.0 cam", torker 2
373 gears 3200 Continental Convertor
best et 10.679/127.5/1.533 60ft
308 gears best et 10.76/125.64/1.5471
  #11  
Old 09-06-2020, 06:26 PM
67GTONUT's Avatar
67GTONUT 67GTONUT is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Rockaway, NJ, USA
Posts: 1,501
Default

Like other have said..... $350 is very reasonable for the job.....

__________________
Troy
Rockaway NJ
67 GTO
400HO / TKX 3.27 1ST GEAR-.72OD / 3.36 POSI
HOTCHKIS/UMI/BILSTEIN
  #12  
Old 09-06-2020, 06:27 PM
thebuick thebuick is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 248
Default HEADER COST

I like to consider the following for $350 bucks, no head ache, no knuckle scrapes no back aches and if the gasket doesn't seal HE DOES IT OVER. plus 3 hours to take in a lunch with someone. ;] well worth it to me.

  #13  
Old 09-06-2020, 06:35 PM
leeklm's Avatar
leeklm leeklm is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 1,747
Default

"$350 is a ridiculous amount of money for an hour's work."

Yeah, i always tell my wife that my simple project will be done in an hour. Six hours later I might jave the job done

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

__________________
68 Firebird-- Street/Strip - 400/461 Eagle Forged Bottom End & Ross Flat top pistons. KRE 325 CFM D port, Ultradyne 263/271 @.050, .4267 lift. Crower Solid roller lifters and 1.65 stainless rockers. Quickfuel 1000 on Torker2 intake and 2" open spacer. Hedman 1.75" headers. TH400 w/brake. Ford 9" w/3.80 gears & 28x9 Hoosier pro bracket drag radial. Best ET: 1.35 60ft, 6.29 @ 107.20 mph, 9.99 @132.33 mph. 3,300 race weight
  #14  
Old 09-06-2020, 06:43 PM
West Coast GTO's Avatar
West Coast GTO West Coast GTO is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Idaho
Posts: 699
Default

Neighbor's Complaint;
What do the Flowmaster headers look like? Good fitment with P/S, P/B and A/C?
I went with Ram Air manifolds from Hooker headers and that swap was easy with the help of a sawzall.
For what it's worth; I wouldn't want to swap headers without a floor lift .

  #15  
Old 09-06-2020, 08:11 PM
Chris65LeMans's Avatar
Chris65LeMans Chris65LeMans is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,591
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeGermanHam View Post
$350 sounds reasonable to me. Getting headers out and in can be a time-consuming ordeal, and I'd think it would take 3-4 hours of labor plus tax. Where I live, labor is often around $100/hr.
+8. When I had to replace a header gasket, I called around and couldn’t find anyone to do it. I think it ended up taking me 6 or 7 hours to do it - and that was just one side. (I’ve found that any repair takes all day if it’s the first time I do it.).

What happens if he runs into an issue and it ends up taking him all day. He’s gotta pad his estimate just in case.

__________________
1965 Pontiac LeMans. M21, 3.73 in a 12 bolt, Kauffman 461.
  #16  
Old 09-08-2020, 11:12 AM
Skip Fix's Avatar
Skip Fix Skip Fix is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Katy,TX USA
Posts: 20,541
Default

I have 4 sets of the identical Hooker Super Comps -ALL 4 sets fit different need BFH "massaging" in different spots! I've put these same header in an out a number of times on my 78 TA and the Camaro/Pontiac and it sure is longer than an hour even just a repeat of a set already massaged!

__________________
Skip Fix
1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever!
1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand
1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project
2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4
1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project
1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs
  #17  
Old 09-08-2020, 11:54 AM
Sirrotica's Avatar
Sirrotica Sirrotica is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Catawba Ohio
Posts: 7,194
Default

You might want to ask the shop owner if he will do the job on a flat rate per hour, time as required. Just be present while the work is performed so no one loses any money, and no one gets enriched beyond the estimate.

Since I've owned my own business and have also installed a bunch of headers while I owned it, there are variables you just can't figure on. As Skip has already said, headers of the same number made on the same jig don't always fit the same. There are also differences in the chassis from car to car especially when you're working on a F body at nearly 50 years old. The body to sub-frame bushing condition make the variance very wide in these older cars.

IMO, the fairest way to be sure no one loses, is to establish a rate per hour and then base it off of nearest 1/10th of an hour (6 minutes) start to finish.

I'm sure the shop owner based it off of worst case scenario, and if they get it done quicker, they pocket more money if the customer agrees to the initial estimate. It's just like working flat rate where each job is pre-rated by the flat rate book, if you're able to beat the estimate in the flat rate book you pocket the difference. The difference here is the shop owner is writing the flat rate time himself, and I believe he's basing it off a worst case scenario.

FWIW, I've done a ton of Pontiac header installs, as well as other brands of cars, and I've done it on the clock and was paid for it, not as my hobby. I don't believe I could do them in an hour, even 25 years ago when I was much younger, and nimble than now. If the shop owner is basing it on $100 an hour shop labor, I do think 3.5 hours is excessive to R&R the same set of headers, hence the reason I suggested labor based on actual time spent doing the R&R (Remove & replace).

I would say if it's based on actual time spent, it's going to be around 2 hours, from the time the car is lifted off the ground til its set back down on the ground ready to drive out the door. That would be my estimate having done it numerous times. I would go for 3.5 hours if I was removing the stock manifolds, and doing it from scratch the first time, I used to figure 3 hours when I was installing headers on cars, and removing the stock system...................

__________________
Brad Yost
1973 T/A (SOLD)
2005 GTO
1984 Grand Prix

100% Pontiacs in my driveway!!! What's in your driveway?

If you don't take some of the RACETRACK home with you, Ya got cheated

  #18  
Old 09-08-2020, 12:13 PM
ta man ta man is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Clinton,Ontario,Canada
Posts: 5,348
Default

So I've rethought this process..I really think 3.5 hours is fair. The proper way is do the r/r...take the car off the hoist...fire it up..check for apparent leaks...take it for a test drive...get on the throttle ..get the heat into the engine...back to the shop...let it cool back on the hoist retighten bolts.

__________________

466 Mike Voycey shortblock, 310cfm SD KRE heads, SD "OF 2.0 cam", torker 2
373 gears 3200 Continental Convertor
best et 10.679/127.5/1.533 60ft
308 gears best et 10.76/125.64/1.5471
  #19  
Old 09-08-2020, 07:17 PM
Formulajones's Avatar
Formulajones Formulajones is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 10,794
Default

For what shop labor rates are these days, $350 is a pretty cheap estimate to R&R a set of long tube headers. That amount of money pays about 3 1/2 hours of work and I doubt they'll get them done that quickly. I do this type of work and have a hoist. It's still time consuming. Especially considering that all the Pontiacs I've done also required removal of the starter and I usually have to jack the engine up as well to get at least one side on and off.

Shucks I just did 1 5/8 long tube headers on a SBF Mustang a few weeks ago. Looked like it had all the room in the world to work. Gave the impression it would be an easy job. Still took from morning till dinner time to finish the job and I still had to jack that engine up and remove the starter to get the header in on the passenger side, and that was the side that looked like had the most room.

__________________
2019 Pontiac Heaven class winner

https://youtu.be/XqEydRRRwqE
  #20  
Old 09-09-2020, 02:07 PM
1969400HO's Avatar
1969400HO 1969400HO is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Currently living in Portland, Oregon. Lived in Ireland 3 months Israel 4+yrs, loved it
Posts: 109
Default

We spend HOW MUCH on Coffee in One month??
I won’t touch anyones personal car for less than $250-300 on anything!
I charge my customer $440 an hour for my decades of hard earned skills.

How Much you spend a Month on COFFEE? ? ?

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:44 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017