[Half-Inch Stud]

Now, We all have stress test data on our heat pumps for thermal-delta below 20F. Ours gets to 72 when temps are 5 F. Thats 67F delta. i'll take it.

Propane heater allows the heat pump to turn off for long periods. Very nice prep/augment/system solution.

[pontiacs-r-us]

I have to agree w/ elarson… I think your electric backup in HP may be undersized? Hoosier I just had a Bosch dual fuel system installed this yr. (July) It is a gas furnace with add on heat pump…We have been @ 0 deg for 2 days here in Va w/ high wind gust… I am super happy with the way it has preformed … HP side has not ran any since outside temps dropped below 18… furnace only,& boy it sure is warm heat….

[66sprint6]

Just wanted to mention the humidity factor. I don't know if you guys have the humidifer tied in like I do with my forced air furnace. The moisture in the air keeps you more comfortable and makes you feel warmer. Of course, the temperature is of utmost importance first. A few years ago, we had that really bad ice storm that knocked out power here for over a week. I put a gas fireplace in after that. Then another in the front room the year after that.
Another thing that we did when I was a kid was use the oven as a heat source for a bit. We'd crank that sucker up and just open the door every 5 minutes or so for a blast of heat. If I can cook a turkey at 325* for six hours, then I'm not worried about leaving it on for a bit to help heat things up.

[carcrazy]

I have multiple heat pumps in my house. We saw temperatures around 10 degrees yesterday. With the electric emergency heat (which is very expensive) we had no issues. Typically when the outside temps are less than around 30 degrees the emergency heat is necessary. If the house is not being heated properly your emergency heat may not be functioning. Pretty easy to tell because it will be quite warm at the register. In some cases where it typically doesn't get cold, emergency heat strips are not installed.

[Dennis H.]

We have had heat pumps in our house for 35 years and have had all kinds of up and downs with them. I find that technology changes in heat pumps have changed for the better. We currently have a 5 year old Trane heat pump that has an electric furnace as backup, and have a WiFi digital thermostat that work reasonably well, and with the digital controls, the backup electric furnace is designed to start kicking in to supply desired heat levels when temps get below 20 degrees. But when we see temps start to hit consistent lows in the single digits and colder, we will manually select emergency heat option so we can better control the furnace output. We also use these Presto ceramic electric heaters (bought at Costco for $69 each) in the rooms we are in most of the time, and they work great, and do not seem to add much to our all electric home bill. I will add, the emergency electric furnace we have does pretty well, but it is about 2-3 times more expensive to use when not using the heat pump with it. When temps start to rise back to 20 and above we go back to the heat pump. If you have a heat pump, you will never have the overall comfort level you have with natural gas furnaces, it is something we have gotten used to.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Some things we learned (didn't know before due to lack of need to know):

1.a spoon of real olive oil helps a dry throat. Honey just dissipates.
2. The IR from our orange-glow ceramic element is completely soothing to the cheeks, and fingers. My fingers stayed completely warm all night, till dawn ( well now too).
3. Cracking the front door open during the day assures oxygen getting in, whether we need it or not. Overnight was fine with doors & windows sealed up. Central heat doesn't run much with 1 of the 3 ceramic elements running full time.
4. Sheep just don't have a care about the cold, even while pregnant.

Propane or natural gas ought to be the emergency heat, not electrical elements in a heat pump.

National utility rolling blackouts in my morning news feed. Really?

[Formulabruce]

This year my house became 160 years old. Lincoln was president, no ele, no water, no sewer when built. Only paper was used for some insulation in some places. Wood shingle roof too when new.
Lots of attempts at insulation took place over the decades/ century.
@ 12 degrees.....
We have had oil fired hot air, nat gas, propane and Anthracite.
This house is about 1650 sq ft.
Nat gas condensate furnace would run 5 times an hour to maybe keep 65. ( same furnace e as below but way less efficient with nat gas)
Propane condensate furnace ( 94%) efficiency ran 3 times a hour.
Oil furnace hot air with 85% efficiency ran 3 times an hour.
The cost here for electricity makes that unaffordable.
Spot placed small propane heaters ( buddyvheaters) can sure help with some ventilation. Mine run off 20 lb propane tanks in remote areas.
All that said, we bought a small " chubby" hard coal stove and installed it 8 years ago. Made a huge difference, but its a bit of work. We bought a bigger Harman coal stove and now only use the furnace to circulate the toasty warm air.
At the top of the non nuclear energy chain is Anthracite coal. Burns clean, No smoke from chimney and no kreosote..
We stripped out the plaster and slat walls on 2 sides and did spray in foam. This was a huge improvement..
Many of the upright supports had bark on them still.
So.. tiny propane or coal heater can be good ideas.
I bought a thermal graph gun with screen and boy that tells the story..
Heat pumps only work well alone when the envelope is tight and its below the Mason Dixon line..
Good luck

[pont3]

I wouldn't have a heat pump if one of you paid for it and its operating expenses. My first house, built brand new in 1987, in Valdosta, GA came with this pos. Never felt warm and exorbitant electricity bill.

[Cliff R]

If you have a heat pump or geothermal it's a really good idea to have a back-up plan, at least if you live as far North as I do.

I told my neighbor this when he bought the house next to me about 15 years ago. He's a chemistry professor at a local college, pretty smart guy, did all the research, etc and went geothermal. Two months into the heating season here I saw a company over at his house installing a double wall stainless chimney up thru the roof and he put a wood stove in the basement.

I asked him about it and he said that the geothermal was excellent all summer but really lacking when it dropped down below about 20 degrees outside. His wife felt cold so turned up the thermostat and he was nicely rewarded with a couple of HUGE electric bills running the back-up heat strips. Living in the woods and plenty of free wood he added the wood stove and loves it.

I had a heat pump once, biggest POS I ever had attached to a house. Ran all the time summer and Winter and you were never really all that cool in the summer or warm in the Winter and HIGH electric bills year round. If I wouldn't have moved that POS would have been amputated off the slab out back and we'd have went to a conventional natural gas furnace with A/C.

I realize "modern" heat pumps are considerably more efficient these days, but even my brother who does HVAC systems for a living didn't recommend one when my A/C unit took a crap a few months back. I don't need one anyhow as I have an outdoor boiler for heat plus a whole house wood furnace in the basement. If all that fails I have a standard 90 plus propane furnace down there as well.......

.

[Mr Anonymous]

Heat pump with propane backup is getting more popular locally (SW Ohio). This recent run of days with below zero temps has been unusual. There have been a lot of houses built since the last time we had this kind of temperature excursion, so this is the first real test for many of them. Our temp swing was on the order of 47*F to -7*F in a span of around 4-6 hours. Damn awful. My house was making all sorts of noises.

I use a forced air propane furnace and won't go heat pump likely ever.

My brother is less than five miles away - has a heat pump on a 2800 sq ft house - and his house got to 48 degrees on Saturday morning. Brrrrrrrrr.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

If you have a heat pump or geothermal it's a really good idea to have a back-up plan, at least if you live as far North as I do.

Geothermal systems rely on the temperature of the earth down below the frost line, which remains at around 55 degrees year round. They shouldn't be affected by cold weather. Your neighbor's system may not have been sized correctly.

[MIAGIMAN]

I installed a Tosot double stack heat pump dual zone system last spring in the carriage house/garage, it's has been 1 degree to 25 for almost a week , it has not let us down. It even has a automatic defrost cycle. So far so good

[Half-Inch Stud]

Originally Posted by MIAGIMAN

I installed a Tosot double stack heat pump dual zone system last spring in the carriage house/garage, it's has been 1 degree to 25 for almost a week , it has not let us down. It even has a automatic defrost cycle. So far so good

Hmmm, not familiar with a stacked Heatpump. Makes sense until i think about it. There is a Q-calc that will tell how cold outside it will handle to sustain 74F. I'm nerved to think it will run non-stop to hold.

Oh he k ! We put the AC on at 12:30 because it was 76 F inside, and the dogs don't like that when we went out to lunch. 5:30 and feels nice with no heat running since 12:30. Time for heatpump.

[mgarblik]

I had the original 85% efficient NG forced air furnace my house was built with until 3 years ago. House built in 1977, 2200 SQ ft. That's a good long life for a medium quality 100,000 BTU furnace. The burner started to light and go out and the little circuit board had stored some trouble codes for a leak in the combustion system. Sure enough, a few small pin holes in the heat exchanger. Friend of mine in the HVAC business talked me into a 95% efficient Lenox replacement. I was skeptical of promised utility cost savings. Three years later, our average NG usage is about 1/3 less than the old furnace and our electricity use in the summer is down about 25%. So with the rising rates on both, our utility bills are about the same as they were 3 years ago. I guess that's progress?
I like the feel of warm air coming from the registers. Every heat pump system house I have been in feels like the AC is on all year long. I know it's something you get used to.

[4dblnkldude]

Well guys, in a few short years heat pumps are all your gonna be able to get. Heat pumps are awesome, in almost any climate when the house and many other parameters are met. Retro fitting a heat pump in any house is a tricky situation... geothermal included. So these ham and egger contractors that just put in a heat pump and call it a day in a house that has not been updated in 50 years are setting themselves up for failure and the home owner for disappointment. I would say chances are that if you have said you don't like or hate heat pumps there is an 80% it was not the heat pumps fault. Its all in the design, duct layout, sizing, and comfort expectations.

[MIAGIMAN]

I can compare the propane conventional system (Rheem 3 1/2 ton 1 1/2 yrs old) to the electric heat pump (9 months old 4 ton) double stacker with air exchanger very easily in dollars. Main house heat on 70 runs pretty steady, it sucks propane (2.90/gal) like a baby on a , lets say bottle, installed horribly with no zoning, now the new double stack high efficiency system on 2 zones , 2 thermostats one upper one lower will run until -20 degrees alternates from one zone to the other zone and doesn't run non stop. Its heats and cools flawlessly to date. It has a air handler too, not just the unit outside, same size wise as the conventional gas or heat pump system, no need for propane for that one. to date it's nite and day on the $ to do their job.

[59safaricat]

Arctic cold heat pumps are effective down to -15F but I would still have a woodstove/woodpile as a backup incase the electricity went out. Technology is convenient until it fails. Always have an oldschool backup plan in all areas of life.