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Old 11-28-2020, 11:27 PM
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Scott Stoneburg Scott Stoneburg is offline
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Default Out with the old. In with the new (soon)

Looks like my 474 ate a bearing last Wednesday after racing. I was driving home when the dreaded knocking sound started. Pulled over quickly and got a trailer to get it the rest of the way home. When pulling it back into the shop there was no noise, but the oil filter had a lot of bearing flakes in it. Pulled the 474 out today and took the pan down, looked at 4 rod bearings and they are not the culprit. Some metal transfer, but the journals just need a polish. Its taken 7 years of street and strip abuse. Not as long as I would have liked it to last. I was planning on swapping the 535 in at the begining of the year anyway. I will be putting the 535 on the dyno hopefully in December then dropping it in the car.
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Old 11-29-2020, 07:20 AM
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Not a happy time, but atleast you did not ventilate the block!

Was/ is it a cast Crank in the motor from the aftermarket?

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  #3  
Old 11-29-2020, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve25 View Post
Not a happy time, but atleast you did not ventilate the block!

Was/ is it a cast Crank in the motor from the aftermarket?
Yes, the block lived through it. Its a factory crank. I am thinking its probaby a main bearing. The knock was intermittent, didnt knock at all coming off the trailer or driving into the shop. Due to my work schedule I probably will be pulling more of it apart this coming Wednesday.

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Old 11-29-2020, 11:48 AM
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Sad that's for sure! Sounds you will still have some decent usable parts left.
For the next back up!

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Old 11-29-2020, 01:05 PM
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I decided to get off my a$$ this morning and look at the bearings. Most were nice. 1 main had some copper showing but smooth, not all chewed up with flakes missing. # 6 rod had some material transfer but crank looks good. # 8 is the one that spun and was hammering. Rod has some "blueing" from heat. Crank looks ok. Still think maybe just a polish. Nothing i can feel with my fingernail. So, hopefully 1 new rod, polish the crank and reassemble. Still have to completely disassemble so the diagnosis could change.
Pic is # 8 rod cap bearing half
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Old 11-29-2020, 01:45 PM
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What connecting rods were in the engine and did #8 seem to have full torque on the fasteners when you removed them?

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Old 11-29-2020, 02:02 PM
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Eagle rods, ARP 2000 bolts. Yes seemed to be torqued. Not sure what the root cause was. Some bearings had no crush left, from what i know that could be a result of detonation. It is a 12.5 to 1 motor. I drive daily on pump fuel but do not "hit it hard" on pump fuel. Ive never heard even a hint of detonation but i know it happens even when you dont hear it. It was running good at thw track. 5 passes all within .2 mph of each other. Started making noise on the way home

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Old 11-29-2020, 03:15 PM
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Glad it wasn't any worse than it was Scott. The 535 will be fun!

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Old 11-29-2020, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Stoneburg View Post
Eagle rods, ARP 2000 bolts. Yes seemed to be torqued. Not sure what the root cause was. Some bearings had no crush left, from what i know that could be a result of detonation. It is a 12.5 to 1 motor. I drive daily on pump fuel but do not "hit it hard" on pump fuel. Ive never heard even a hint of detonation but i know it happens even when you dont hear it. It was running good at thw track. 5 passes all within .2 mph of each other. Started making noise on the way home
what pump fuel, 91 or 93 ? Was the cam a custom pump gas cam ?
Good luck with your new bullet.

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Old 11-29-2020, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post
what pump fuel, 91 or 93 ? Was the cam a custom pump gas cam ?
Good luck with your new bullet.
Pump gas here is 93. The cam is an old Lunati grind. I wouldnt race on pump gas, always added 110 to go to the track.

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Old 11-29-2020, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post
what pump fuel, 91 or 93 ? Was the cam a custom pump gas cam ?
Good luck with your new bullet.
Serious question, what is a pump gas cam?



Looking forward to see the results on the 535ci CV-1 head. Should be good

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Old 11-29-2020, 09:32 PM
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[QUOTE=slowbird;6200875]Serious question, what is a pump gas cam?



Looking forward to see the results on the 535ci CV-1 head. Should be good[/QUOTE

I think when someone say "pump gas cam or grind" it means fairly large overlap to bleed off cylinder pressure. I think. Im no cam expert
I am excite to get the 535 finished. I could just drop it in now. Its complete. But I want to buy a bigger carb and have it on a dyno just to say I did it. That way I also can see how close the converter is to what it wants.

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Old 11-29-2020, 10:20 PM
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Glad its OK. What kind of water pump is on the engine on the left?

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Old 11-30-2020, 02:18 AM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
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[QUOTE=Scott Stoneburg;6200881]
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbird View Post
Serious question, what is a pump gas cam?



Looking forward to see the results on the 535ci CV-1 head. Should be good[/QUOTE

I think when someone say "pump gas cam or grind" it means fairly large overlap to bleed off cylinder pressure. I think. Im no cam expert
I am excite to get the 535 finished. I could just drop it in now. Its complete. But I want to buy a bigger carb and have it on a dyno just to say I did it. That way I also can see how close the converter is to what it wants.
They are not all that different than N2O cams. N2O cams can not build too much cylinder pressure as they are adding a bunch later with spray. Pump gas cams can not because they will detonate. High end Super Stock grinds can work well as they were designed for factory CR.
You can get a custom pump gas grind matched to your static CR and fuel if you know the right guy.
Not a cam expert but I know some generalities.

  #15  
Old 11-30-2020, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4dblnkldude View Post
Glad its OK. What kind of water pump is on the engine on the left?
Maziere electric water pump. I am not sure if I will switch to the belt driven pump or not. It is definetly easier to cool the car off at the track with the electric but doesnt cool as well for street driving.

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Old 12-01-2020, 04:59 PM
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[QUOTE=Dragncar;6200947]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Stoneburg View Post

They are not all that different than N2O cams. N2O cams can not build too much cylinder pressure as they are adding a bunch later with spray. Pump gas cams can not because they will detonate. High end Super Stock grinds can work well as they were designed for factory CR.
You can get a custom pump gas grind matched to your static CR and fuel if you know the right guy.
Not a cam expert but I know some generalities.
So you build an engine with high compression just to bleed it off with the cam? How does that make more average power than a more pump gas friendly compression engine paired with the right cam? Your just crutching the issue of too much compression with a cam that's not right, imo.

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Old 12-01-2020, 07:00 PM
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[QUOTE=slowbird;6201570]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post

So you build an engine with high compression just to bleed it off with the cam? How does that make more average power than a more pump gas friendly compression engine paired with the right cam? Your just crutching the issue of too much compression with a cam that's not right, imo.
Same way my 9.0:1 compr engine makes power. Good breathing flow and Dynamic compresion

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Old 12-02-2020, 06:14 PM
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[QUOTE=slowbird;6201570]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragncar View Post

So you build an engine with high compression just to bleed it off with the cam? How does that make more average power than a more pump gas friendly compression engine paired with the right cam? Your just crutching the issue of too much compression with a cam that's not right, imo.
It just does man. Hey, I am no cam expert. I let them pick the cam and learn a little then share a little.

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Old 12-02-2020, 06:14 PM
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[QUOTE=Half-Inch Stud;6201606]
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbird View Post

Same way my 9.0:1 compr engine makes power. Good breathing flow and Dynamic compresion
Run 10.80s with a 9-1 engine, it can be done.

  #20  
Old 12-02-2020, 06:38 PM
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Pulled the motor apart today. #8 and #5 bearings are toast. Rod on #8 is definetly trash. The cap turned black from the heat. # 5 I will have checked. The crank is probably gonna have to be turned. But its a Pontiac crank, offset ground. Is it safe enough to turn it .010 more? Or just get a new crank? Not sure about an aftermarket cast crank,
The rest of the rod bearings look good. The mains look good. Took the oil pump apart and didnt find any garbage in the bypass.

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