[tigergto]

Originally Posted by 71GP76TA

What is it doing?


I quit buying Cadillacs.. Too many problems that are hard to diagnose and repair.

I’m on my fourth alternator in less than a thousand miles. They all can’t be defective. Replaced the ECM, they said it was bad. Still having problems. Will check it out more when I get back home. That is just the latest of a laundry list of problems. Most problems, I or my mechanic was able to solve.
Wife’s Volvo, 87,00 miles, only had to replace the brakes.

[71GP76TA]

Originally Posted by tigergto

I’m on my fourth alternator in less than a thousand miles. They all can’t be defective. Replaced the ECM, they said it was bad. Still having problems. Will check it out more when I get back home. That is just the latest of a laundry list of problems. Most problems, I or my mechanic was able to solve.
Wife’s Volvo, 87,00 miles, only had to replace the brakes.

Try installing a different battery next time you replace alternator. Battery could be internally shorting.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 71GP76TA

I take JD Power with a grain of salt. By your account.. GM is superior to Dodge.. Right???

GM brands Buick, Cadillac, Chevy and Ram are all above average, per the 2021 JD Power survey of original owners of 2018 models that were purchased new.. Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep and GMC are below average.

You've had bad experiences with older used (to you) Cadillacs. I've had excellent experience with both of my personal Cadillacs and both of my personal Chevy's that I purchased new.

My 2014 ATS was a certified preowned when I purchased it with 12,000 miles. Had 80,000 totally trouble free miles (gas, oil and tires only) when I traded it in and it was 8 model years old. The CT4 Sport is only at 6,000 miles.

Thinking about a 2011 - my old company car was an '11 Chevy Impala. I put over 250,000 miles on that car before turning it in to another rep with a much smaller territory than I had. Only 1 non routine maintenance repair on it in those 250,000 miles with a repair bill of about $400.00.

[tigergto]

Originally Posted by 71GP76TA

Try installing a different battery next time you replace alternator. Battery could be internally shorting.

Did that

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 71GP76TA

2021 Scat pack wide body (Is what we are talking about) weighs 4383.. about 100lbs more than the non-wide body. 2014 Camaro 2SS weighs 3935. 448lbs difference.

You're comparing a 2021 (relatively current) Challenger to the old platform '14 Camaro? I was comparing the current generation, not something from the last decade.

Even so, you originally claimed it was a 300 pound difference and it's almost 450, so you were off by 50%.

My numbers were for the weight of a current Camaro which is on a totally different platform and the difference is either a little over or a little under 600 depending on if you have an automatic or a stick.

[gtohurstjudge]

Originally Posted by 71GP76TA

Last 2 Cadillacs I had were junk.. a '11 CTS coupe and a '13 CTS sedan. The '11 had 90,000 miles and the '13 had 110,000 miles. Both cars were plagued with broken trim.... switches and electronic gremlins. Neither were my personal cars as I bought them wholesale to resell on my car lot. I was amazed at how neither car held up to average use. I had to put a timing chain in the '13 as it kept popping a cam/crank code.

Years ago I had an '09 Challenger R/T as a personal car. I purchased the car wholesale with 25,000 miles. I put another 45,000 trouble free miles on it.

the reason the 3.6 liter timing chains go bad is that all the 3.6 liter engines have
light tension piston rings that cause the engines to use oil and cause the oil to get very dirty, and the change oil light is set to come on way too late considering
these two facts. Most people never check their oil, so they are constantly driving around 2 or 3 quarts low on oil. On the 3.6, the first thing that happens when the oil is low is the timing chain doesn't get any oil. On a 3.6 liter GM, ignore what the dash says and change the oil when it starts to look a little dirty, and
check the oil every few weeks and don't let it get more than a 1/2 quart low.,
and use Mobil 1 in the engine I recommend 10W 30 instead of 5 W30. If you do
these things the timing chains and guides won't go bad.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

Plus a feel like their cars are more functional. The challenger I rented was far more roomy and easy to get in and out of than the 6th gen Camaro SS. Im sure that matters to some people.


I think the Challenger historically has had more sub models too. I remember looking at all three of the pony cars in like 2013. The Mustang and Camaro both jumped you up to pretty much their max level of premium if you wanted a v8. The Camao went from like 23k v6 models to 40k just for the v8, because everyone was trim to the max. The Challenger was much more favorable to being able to get into an RT car without being the tippy top trim level.

1. The "new" Challenger has always been a bigger, more family oriented car - we agree on that.

2. I don't now about 2013, but the current 2022 455 HP 6.2L V8 Camaro starts at $35,195 or nearly $3,000 less than a Challenger 375 HP 5.7L V8 which starts at $38,375.

More cubes, more HP, lighter weight, better handling and less cash.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by The Champ

1. The "new" Challenger has always been a bigger, more family oriented car - we agree on that.

2. I don't now about 2013, but the current 2022 455 HP 6.2L V8 Camaro starts at $35,195 or nearly $3,000 less than a Challenger 375 HP 5.7L V8 which starts at $38,375.

More cubes, more HP, lighter weight, better handling and less cash.

Maybe GM listened directly to my feedback.

Also worth noting that I was basing this off of what was actually available in real life pricing on the lots. Maybe the Camaro started closer or lower in MSRP, but that was not reality on Las Vegas car lots at the time. You can chock that up to timing or location maybe.

Every single SS that seemed to actually be produced and available was an LT3 or whatever their max trim level was at the time and was $38-42. Meanwhile you could get into an RT Challenger for more like $30k or maybe even a little under.

[71GP76TA]

Originally Posted by The Champ

You're comparing a 2021 (relatively current) Challenger to the old platform '14 Camaro? I was comparing the current generation, not something from the last decade.

Even so, you originally claimed it was a 300 pound difference and it's almost 450, so you were off by 50%.

My numbers were for the weight of a current Camaro which is on a totally different platform and the difference is either a little over or a little under 600 depending on if you have an automatic or a stick.

Ooohhhh I was 150 lbs off on my initial guestimate. Shame on me..

[71GP76TA]

Originally Posted by The Champ

GM brands Buick, Cadillac, Chevy and Ram are all above average, per the 2021 JD Power survey of original owners of 2018 models that were purchased new.. Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep and GMC are below average.

You've had bad experiences with older used (to you) Cadillacs. I've had excellent experience with both of my personal Cadillacs and both of my personal Chevy's that I purchased new.

My 2014 ATS was a certified preowned when I purchased it with 12,000 miles. Had 80,000 totally trouble free miles (gas, oil and tires only) when I traded it in and it was 8 model years old. The CT4 Sport is only at 6,000 miles.

Thinking about a 2011 - my old company car was an '11 Chevy Impala. I put over 250,000 miles on that car before turning it in to another rep with a much smaller territory than I had. Only 1 non routine maintenance repair on it in those 250,000 miles with a repair bill of about $400.00.

2011 Impala?? Surprised it lasted that long. You must have a real delicate touch....

I'm not saying Cadillac is a bad car.... when they're new.. Once its out of warranty dump it.. Because that is what you are going to have to do as the resale on them sucks... at least in this market it does..

[Stuart]

For any car you can name there will be some people who think it's great, and some who think it's terrible. Arguing about it on the Internet is pointless.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

Maybe GM listened directly to my feedback.

Also worth noting that I was basing this off of what was actually available in real life pricing on the lots. Maybe the Camaro started closer or lower in MSRP, but that was not reality on Las Vegas car lots at the time. You can chock that up to timing or location maybe.

Every single SS that seemed to actually be produced and available was an LT3 or whatever their max trim level was at the time and was $38-42. Meanwhile you could get into an RT Challenger for more like $30k or maybe even a little under.

No, they didn't listen to you, they already had a lower priced V8.

The 1SS base price was more like $32,000 back then. You were most likely looking at the 2SS - the upscale model.

From KBB.com

The 2013 Chevrolet Camaro 1LS has a Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) of just over $24,000, with convertible LT models starting above $31,000. Opting for the V8-powered SS adds roughly $8,000.

The Camaro’s closet competitor and arch nemesis, the Ford Mustang, starts right around $23,000, while a base Dodge Challenger will be about $2,000 over a base 2013 Camaro.

It doesn't surprise me that in Las Vegas they would only have highly optioned 2SS or ZL1's on the lot. Out in flyover country (midwest), 1SS Camaros were readily available.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 71GP76TA

Ooohhhh I was 150 lbs off on my initial guestimate. Shame on me..

50% off isn't a minor gaffe. And you were comparing the last decade's Camaro to your current decade's Challenger.

As soon as you made your claim - I knew the real difference was more like 500 pounds back then and was even more today.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by 71GP76TA

2011 Impala?? Surprised it lasted that long. You must have a real delicate touch....

I'm not saying Cadillac is a bad car.... when they're new.. Once its out of warranty dump it.. Because that is what you are going to have to do as the resale on them sucks... at least in this market it does..

I worked for an ACDelco warehouse distributor.

That was a work vehicle. I drove over 1,000 miles per week for work back then covering my territory in southern MN and northern IA. I spent a lot of time on back country roads and even gravel roads. I frequently had the trunk full of batterie core's to return to one of the 5 stores that serviced my customers.

The "delicate touch" was that regular routine maintenance was performed - REGULARLY. But that car was used hard.

I "dumped" my ATS when it was nearly 8 years old (1 month shy of the new model year), It was well out of warranty and I never had a mechanical or electrical issue with the car.

Maybe the Cadillac's that you have been exposed to have been road hard and put away wet without the benefit of regular routine maintenance.

As to dumping my 8 year old ATS - I got $19,000 for it in trade off my CT4 last July - after getting over $5,000 off sticker price of my new ride.