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Interesting little gremlin in 'some' Teslas.

Does Your Tesla Suddenly Brake for No Reason? You're Not Alone
NHTSA: More than 750 Tesla owners have reported 'phantom braking' phenomenon

More than 750 Tesla owners have complained to US safety regulators that cars operating on the automaker's partially automated driving systems have suddenly stopped on roadways for no apparent reason. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration revealed the number in a detailed information request letter to Tesla that was posted Friday on the agency's website, per the AP. The 14-page letter dated May 4 asks the automaker for all consumer and field reports it has received about false braking, as well as reports of crashes, injuries, deaths, and property damage claims. It also asks whether the company's "Full Self-Driving" and automatic emergency braking systems were active at the time of any incident.

The agency began investigating phantom braking in Tesla's Models 3 and Y last February after getting 354 complaints. The probe covers an estimated 416,000 vehicles from the 2021 and 2022 model years. In February, the agency said it had no reports of crashes or injuries. In opening the probe, the agency said it was looking into vehicles equipped with automated driver-assist features such as adaptive cruise control and "Autopilot," which allows them to automatically brake and steer within their lanes. "Complainants report that the rapid deceleration can occur without warning, and often repeatedly during a single drive cycle," the agency said. Many owners wrote in their complaints that they feared a rear-end crash on a freeway.

The NHTSA's letter focuses on Tesla's testing of the automated systems when it comes to detecting metal bridges, S-shaped curves, oncoming and cross traffic, and different sizes of vehicles, including large trucks. The agency also wants information on how cameras deal with reflections, shadows, glare, and blockage due to snow or heavy rain. The agency is now seeking information on warranty claims for phantom braking, including owner names and what repairs were made. It's also looking for info on Tesla's sensors, any testing or probes into the braking problems, or if any modifications were made. It's the fourth formal investigation of the Texas automaker in the past three years. The NHTSA is also supervising 23 Tesla recalls since January 2021.

[Half-Inch Stud]

"Processing" - the car computer

[ID67goat]

The 2018 Honda Accord that I had did the same thing many times to me. Many dealer visits later they finally fixed it with a software update.

I really do not like the adaptive cruise control etc on these newer cars….

[turbo69bird]

Racing a model X plaid today. Car is absolutely amazing. And it’ll tear up my hellcat , my RAIV and hang right There w my turbocharged 69 bird and I can drive it to the track , scary how bad azz this car is it’s an animal.
Absolutely destroyed my buddies lambo!
Oh yeah correction it’ll drive ME to the track!

[BDH79TA]

What ever happened to personal responsibility and awareness of your surroundings? Put the phone down, drive your car, steer and apply your own brakes. It's worked for me for almost 40 years.

[67drake]

Originally Posted by BDH79TA

What ever happened to personal responsibility and awareness of your surroundings? Put the phone down, drive your car, steer and apply your own brakes. It's worked for me for almost 40 years.

Yeah, but look at the fun those guys are having playing “pattie-cake” while driving on that GMC truck commercial.

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by BDH79TA

What ever happened to personal responsibility and awareness of your surroundings? Put the phone down, drive your car, steer and apply your own brakes. It's worked for me for almost 40 years.

In the Tesla it’s not completely hands free every few minutes it wants your input on the steering wheel. But it does drive itself really well just wants to know a driver is there to keep it honest and safe at this point. . I’ve even tested it on (unpopulated) twisty turns and it did well. Of course I’m ready to take over in a split second.
It’s nice for redundant drives that are boring but you shouldn’t be doing something else all together .

really that’s not what’s great about this car, it’s the power. There’s never been a Pontiac built that would touch it. It’s as fast as the car in my Signiture.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-mode...e-stock-video/

Love my Pontiacs nothing like driving them. They are great but this thing will run 9.70s stock! The day you pick it up! And do it whisper quiet I wasn’t sure I’d like it myself but I really love the car, it’s an amazing car. I only wish Pontiac was here making these new high powered cars. Yes even electric . Anyone who knows me will tell you most of what is going on w the green new deal I can’t stand.
But I cannot argue w the Tesla plaid, it is one bad azz ride no matter how it gets it’s power. In fact it’s really coal
And natural gas powered right now and will partially be that way for many many years . I’m not against oil Nat gas , and think we should be drilling here our own production of oil
Is far cleaner than” other “oil. We drill responsibly.
I wouldn’t jam a electric car down anyones throat, but I also won’t “not share” what I feel is great about them
For political reasons. When something is good it’s good and the Tesla plaid is GREAT!
The electric car was more popular than gas at the turn of the century but didn’t last. Maybe they won’t this time either IDK but,
These two cars pictured run the same ET at the track ! Except I can drive one there and drive. It anywhere in comfort

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by turbo69bird

In the Tesla it’s not completely hands free every few minutes it wants your input on the steering wheel.

That's the theory according to Elon Musk.

However:



"The California Highway Patrol (CHP) today announced it has arrested 25-year-old Param Sharma for reckless driving of a Tesla while in the backseat on Interstate 80 (I-80) in the Bay Area. Sharma was arrested without incident and booked into Santa Rita Jail on two counts of reckless driving and disobeying a Peace Officer. The Tesla was towed from the scene for evidence and this incident remains under investigation.

On May 10 at approximately 6:34 p.m., the CHP’s Golden Gate Division Communications Center received multiple 9-1-1 calls regarding an individual seated in the backseat of a Tesla Model 3 without anyone seated in the driver’s seat. The vehicle was reported to be traveling eastbound on I-80 across the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge toward the city of Oakland.

An Oakland CHP motor officer at the Bay Bridge Toll Plaza located the Tesla, confirmed that a single occupant was seated in the backseat, and initiated an enforcement stop. The officer observed the individual move into the driver’s seat. The occupant then brought the Tesla to a stop on the shoulder of I-80 eastbound just west of Powell Street, where the officer arrested Sharma.

Prior to this arrest, members of the public had captured video of someone resembling Sharma operating his vehicle in the same reckless manner, and the CHP’s Oakland Area had cited Sharma on April 27 for similar behavior.

The safety of all who share our roadways is the primary concern of the CHP. The Department thanks the public for providing valuable information that aided in this investigation and arrest."

https://electrek.co/2021/05/12/tesla...e%20Bay%20Area.

This is NOT a one off situation. He has been arrested multiple times for this.

How about sleeping while "driving" at 80 MPH?

"Tesla driver slept as car was going over 80 mph on Autopilot, Wisconsin officials say"

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...pilot-n1267805

No responsible driver would do this. But many Tesla owners aren't responsible.

[72projectbird]

I'll never own a vehicle with adaptive cruise, auto braking, lane keep assist etc etc.

[Terry M. Hunt]

I want a car that responds to inputs from me NOT the other way around. I’m starting to get a little paranoid about the growing number of ass hats that are on the road with me every day in their techno miracle. “Cars” . There is no amount of computer programming that can anticipate/respond to the endless variety of conditions encountered while driving a car.

[BDH79TA]

That would mean they'd actually have to be paying attention to what's going on instead of staring at their cell phone. In today's world the car probably responds quicker than the idiot behind the wheel sending an emoji they find hilarious.

[turbo69bird]

This is NOT possible in my Tesla (yes someone who actually drives one). If you go more than 5 minutes without input it’ll kick you out of self driving mode so someone has either circumvented this or it’s an older model that doesn’t do what mine does.
As far as what it’s capable of , it’ll self drive very well on many highways and even secondary roads but in no way is it ready for or should be used as full self driving. Not even close . It will do much of the driving itself but not all. It’s very much like the auto pilot in a small plane. It’s there so you can do other tasks for a short period of time (while still devoting some amount of attention to the tasks of driving)) and it decreases work load it is not a substitute for a driver . When I fly airplanes the auto pilot is much the same, it allows you to read charts and do other tasks as needed but would I use it solely to fly, nope . Some do though I’ve heard of people going into te back of their airplanes in a very similar fashion. There’s always knuckleheads that abuse things like this, I’ve heard of captains on comercial airplanes you fly on that read magazines while the auto pilot flies. Yes those are sophisticated autopilots , but shouldn’t be left to do the whole task of flying. Even though they can technically do it. Some airplane autopilots even for small airplanes can safely land an airplane. Doesn’t mean they should in anything but an emergency.


Many people ( a few who I’ve known personally) have died reaching down for something, looking back at a kid or taking something form a child’s hand or mouth in a car. This feature used properly can save lives. It helps take te load off the driver for a task such as this and keeps people safe. It’ll keep you in your lane, we’ve all seen the head attached to the hand syndrome of some (experienced or inexperienced) drivers they turn their head and the car steers with it. That doesn’t happen with this system on helping them.

There’s a very busy two lane rd near me that constantly has fatal accidents from people crossing the center line.
This system will LIKELY
Solve many of those accidents . It’ll no doubt cause some as well hopefully far less.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by turbo69bird

This is NOT possible in my Tesla (yes someone who actually drives one). If you go more than 5 minutes without input it’ll kick you out of self driving mode so someone has either circumvented this or it’s an older model that doesn’t do what mine does.

First you say it's not possible, then you admit that it's possible when you say it can be circumvented.

Irresponsible people do irresponsible things all the time.

Tesla first starting selling Autopilot hardware nearly 8 years ago. The first software release was nearly 7 years ago.

Has it improved over the years? I'm sure it has. But it's not perfect and it has been abused by many.

Most, not all, Tesla buyers don't actually like to drive. Many of them don't even like cars. That's who the Autopilot feature is aimed at. A lot of Tesla buyers own it to "prove" how "woke" they are by having a luxury electric car.

I've never understood the high performance electric cars. Electric cars are supposed to save the planet over fossil fueled vehicles. Wouldn't the planet be better served by low powered, economy oriented electric vehicles?

It's like the global warming conferences last year where 118 private jets brought in the attendees from all over the world. And it's not just the private jets - Biden's motorcade in Edinborough was 26 vehicles long (not one electric car in it either).

I truly believe that you enjoy the performance of your Tesla. I'm sure it is amazing in many ways. But is it really "green"?

[BDH79TA]

Probably the most disheartening thing said was that the autopilot is so that you can focus on small tasks for short periods of time. Seriously? Is this where we're at now? We can't focus on one single task at hand? We can't put the phone down and drive for 30 minutes? I'm not arguing electric or gas powered. I'm not arguing performance numbers or joy of driving. There's an argument to be said for what it takes to manufacture, charge and dispose of those batteries. That's another discussion entirely. I understand the autopilot comparison. However, when in auto pilot, you're not passing 100 other planes separated by 5 feet and a painted line.

We're so quick to hand over personal responsibility to tech. We find someone to blame when our own actions cause us injury or inconvenience. We don't even do our own shopping anymore then complain they gave us the wrong item. We hide behind screen names and anonymity. It's an unfortunate way of the world now. We sacrifice freedoms to alleviate responsibility. We discard accountability and choice in the guise of safety. It's not going to change any time soon. Just don't fool yourselves. The more you hand over, the more they'll take and the fewer options and decisions you'll be allowed to make on your own.

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by BDH79TA

Probably the most disheartening thing said was that the autopilot is so that you can focus on small tasks for short periods of time. Seriously? Is this where we're at now? We can't focus on one single task at hand? We can't put the phone down and drive for 30 minutes? I'm not arguing electric or gas powered. I'm not arguing performance numbers or joy of driving. There's an argument to be said for what it takes to manufacture, charge and dispose of those batteries. That's another discussion entirely. I understand the autopilot comparison. However, when in auto pilot, you're not passing 100 other planes separated by 5 feet and a painted line.

We're so quick to hand over personal responsibility to tech. We find someone to blame when our own actions cause us injury or inconvenience. We don't even do our own shopping anymore then complain they gave us the wrong item. We hide behind screen names and anonymity. It's an unfortunate way of the world now. We sacrifice freedoms to alleviate responsibility. We discard accountability and choice in the guise of safety. It's not going to change any time soon. Just don't fool yourselves. The more you hand over, the more they'll take and the fewer options and decisions you'll be allowed to make on your own.

Yes it is where we’ve always been many many people have died from small tasks in cars if you didn’t already know that your in a dream world.

[98 SNAKE EATER]

I actually have this issue on my 2016 Toyota Sienna with PCS (Pre-Collision System)

I picked it up used a couple years back with ~80k miles and noticed it would suddenly lock up the brakes for a split second randomly while driving over certain railroad crossings

Scared the $#!t out of me the first time around cause I neary got rear ended

Contacted Toyota and they pretty much told me to go pound sand since it was well out of the warranty period

They said if I wanted to have it checked out, it would be on my dime at whatever going labor rate and there would be no guarantee of a fix

Yeah, that doesn't cut it with me lol

Since it's clearly a safety issue, I made a bunch of YouTube videos showing exactly what was happening, then forwarded them to the NHTSA

The very next day I got a call from Toyota Corporate insisting that I bring the vehicle to my nearest dealer for a full inspection and that they would handle everything including a loaner car until the matter is resolved

We scheduled a drop off and they flew in an entire inspection team of field technicians and production engineers to interview me before starting the inspection (they took the matter VERY seriously as they didn't wan't another major safety recall on their hands)

Took a drive to one of the locations where I was able to replicate the problem numerous times with a dozen of their cameras pointed at all the controls to make sure I wasn't faking anything.

I left it with them for a day and they did some adjustments and recalibration that actually helped reduce the occurrence from 8 out of 10 times to about 2 out of 10 times, but the problem is still there.

After that, they mapped out the entire area on a grid for further investigation and told me to keep a log of each incident



Here are a few videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd5TSDIT-28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11YfMh4jcqs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kbG90HL8qs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQEBpPv2Ess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWEUZvu6KLs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9lS5inJIGA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSsmQVyf4O4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAMpAjf1cLA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzFOlksMyL0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1NSX14hec8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT-C4rVJGQY

[turbo69bird]

I never said I cared if it was green. Not once .

If it happens to be that’s great if it isn’t that’s fine too. There’s plenty more reasons the earth may be heating, the weather has gone through many temp cycles and the left has been screening the sky is falling in. 10 years for 50 years and it hasn’t fallen yet. I get that everyone suddenly hates Tesla I mean he did say he’d vote Republican so he MuST be cancelled. And all things Tesla from that point forward will be negative. I get that . But it doesn’t make it any less great of a car. Lmao

So the point that I was so foolishly missing is , that cruise control because it’s OLd is Ok (basically a missile heading down a highway with no steering, braking,, turning. Or any accident avoidance features at all) but driver assistance , rich in all these features is bad because one idiot in California got stupid? Ok I get it now .
That’s a really great argument.

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by 98 SNAKE EATER

I actually have this issue on my 2016 Toyota Sienna with PCS (Pre-Collision System)

I picked it up used a couple years back with ~80k miles and noticed it would suddenly lock up the brakes for a split second randomly while driving over certain railroad crossings

Scared the $#!t out of me the first time around cause I neary got rear ended

Contacted Toyota and they pretty much told me to go pound sand since it was well out of the warranty period

They said if I wanted to have it checked out, it would be on my dime at whatever going labor rate and there would be no guarantee of a fix

Yeah, that doesn't cut it with me lol

Since it's clearly a safety issue, I made a bunch of YouTube videos showing exactly what was happening, then forwarded them to the NHTSA

The very next day I got a call from Toyota Corporate insisting that I bring the vehicle to my nearest dealer for a full inspection and that they would handle everything including a loaner car until the matter is resolved

We scheduled a drop off and they flew in an entire inspection team of field technicians and production engineers to interview me before starting the inspection (they took the matter VERY seriously as they didn't wan't another major safety recall on their hands)

Took a drive to one of the locations where I was able to replicate the problem numerous times with a dozen of their cameras pointed at all the controls to make sure I wasn't faking anything.

I left it with them for a day and they did some adjustments and recalibration that actually helped reduce the occurrence from 8 out of 10 times to about 2 out of 10 times, but the problem is still there.

After that, they mapped out the entire area on a grid for further investigation and told me to keep a log of each incident



Here are a few videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd5TSDIT-28

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11YfMh4jcqs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kbG90HL8qs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQEBpPv2Ess

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWEUZvu6KLs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9lS5inJIGA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSsmQVyf4O4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAMpAjf1cLA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzFOlksMyL0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1NSX14hec8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT-C4rVJGQY

Sucks your having those issues I’ve had that happen once w a motor cycle very close to the center line the car darted away and stepped on the brakes but that’s the only time I’ve had it happen. As I stated I keep my hand on the wheel at all times and if It doesn’t sense the input it’ll still kick me from the self driving mode even then. Idk what these idiots are doing to be able to sit in the back seat but anything is possible . Just like someone can break a safety on a gun or the steering wheel lock on a car or whatever once you modify it it’s no long on the manufacturer.

This IS a new feature on the Tesla and it’s still in beta testing for a reason. Maybe the same for Toyota I don’t know but what I do know is eventually no person will be driving and the cars will follow GPS or sensors In the road. It’s just the way it will be someday . Auto pilots have been used in airplanes for many many years and have greatly increased safety in the skies in my opinion.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by turbo69bird

Anything is possible if it’s circumvented. Dah! Really in stock form it’s not possible. Let me guess your one of those people who thinks a gun is responsible for how a stupid ass person issues it too right so no one should open one

****

I never said I cared if it was green. Not once .

If it happens to be that’s great if it isn’t that’s fine too. There’s plenty more reasons the earth may be heating, the weather has gone through many temp cycles and the left has been screening the sky is falling in. 10 years for 50 years and it hasn’t fallen yet. I get that everyone suddenly hates Tesla I mean he did say he’d vote Republican so he MuST be cancelled. And all things Tesla from that point forward will be negative. I get that . But it doesn’t make it any less great of a car. Lmao

So the point that I was so foolishly missing is , that cruise control because it’s OLd is Ok (basically a missile heading down a highway with no steering, braking,, turning. Or any accident avoidance features at all) but driver assistance , rich in all these features is bad because one idiot in California got stupid? Ok I get it now .
That’s a really great argument.

You are so far off target in your assessments since my last post.

It would be one thing if it took a major effort to circumvent the system, but it doesn't. No sophisticated engineering was/is required.

I'm not sure why you want to bring gun control into the discussion, but I got my first gun when I was 12 years old, and fully believe in the 2nd amendment. Funny how you went from a simple post about Tesla's AutoPilot being misused to thinking that I believe guns are bad.

I never claimed you cared about Tesla's being green. I could tell by your post that you are enamored with the power. I tried to make it clear (apparently not clear enough) that for most of the Tesla buyers, ownership is virtue signaling, but was not saying that was your reason.

You are foolishly missing the point. You claim it "is one idiot out in CA did something stupid", but it's not just one idiot. I gave you two examples - one in CA and one in Wisconsin - but there are thousands of examples out there. Just google "Tesla drivers sleeping" - there are over 2,000,000 results.

The fact that Musk realizes that although he leans left by nature, the current left is now extreme left. I credit Musk for realizing the fact and making smarter personal choices for the future.

In my area and usage, an electric vehicle does not make sense currently. I can see a time in the future that I might consider one.

The charging infrastructure is woefully inadequate in my area (and most areas in the country). Nationally, we don't have the power grid to support wide adoption of electric vehicles (see rolling blackouts/brownouts in many areas).

Those that say the answer to high fuel prices is buying an electric vehicle disregard the fact that the people hurt most by the fuel prices can't afford to buy a different car (new or used).

The average age of vehicles on the road today is 12.2 years. The average family of 4 that has an 8 to 10 year old minivan is not going to buy a brand new anything, much less a $50,000+ electric that doesn't work for their transportation needs. They also aren't likely to be able to afford to put in a level 2 charger that is required for decent charge times at home (110 volt charging is not a real viable solution for anyone that drives much).

Why don't you stop with misguided personal attacks and discuss the issue more professionally?

[Stuart]

Remember this is the Lobby, folks. Abusive language, personal attacks and political comments aren't allowed.