#21  
Old 10-14-2022, 11:39 AM
G.T.O.boy G.T.O.boy is offline
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You asked about the headliner being white, Pontiac thought the interior would be too dark so many of the headliners were white or silver dependent on interior color, black and red interiors got silver headliners, all others as far as I know got white, but many folks changed theirs to match the interior, not much info out there to confirm that all others got white, but the few unrestored colored interior cars other than red that have seen all had a white headliner.

  #22  
Old 10-15-2022, 10:48 AM
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A more accurate information on the 1964 headliner.

Per Eric White awesome factual book.
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2) 66 GTO Survivor. “Factory” Cameo Ivory Paint with Red Pinstripe, Red Interior. OEM Numbers Matching Powertrain. Tri-Power (OEM Vacuum Linkage), Automatic "YR" code (1759 Produced). Fremont Built (01B), with the Rare 614 Option.
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Old 10-16-2022, 06:48 PM
64Lemans 64Lemans is offline
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Thank you 60sstuff for that pic... that is awesome..
When I replace it with a new headliner, I now know exactly what to purchase.

I see the top part of your pic speaks to the outside mirror.
Do you know if the outside mirror when installed at the factory was located further up the fender.
Vs. on the door if installed by the dealer.
Is that a correct statement or ?


Last edited by 64Lemans; 10-16-2022 at 07:02 PM.
  #24  
Old 10-16-2022, 07:18 PM
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Here are a few more photos of 1964 Lemans interiors.
These two cars are Original with the Saddle interior and Parchment headliners.

As you can see, they are Not White.
Parchment is an off White or pale yellowish by definition. Looks good with Saddle interior.
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2) 66 GTO Survivor. “Factory” Cameo Ivory Paint with Red Pinstripe, Red Interior. OEM Numbers Matching Powertrain. Tri-Power (OEM Vacuum Linkage), Automatic "YR" code (1759 Produced). Fremont Built (01B), with the Rare 614 Option.
  #25  
Old 10-16-2022, 07:40 PM
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The optional remote control mirror was located on the fender with the control under the edge of the dash. The optional manual mirror was located on the door by the wing window.

  #26  
Old 10-16-2022, 07:48 PM
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The optional outside remote mirror was code D33.

Here’s a reproduction window sticker showing the options list for my Le Mans convertible, as well as the data plate showing the Saddle interior along with Saddle Bronze paint/Saddle convertible top/Saddle Bronze wheel paint.
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  #27  
Old 10-16-2022, 08:57 PM
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Thank you all once again for all the great info !!!

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Old 10-18-2022, 01:52 PM
G.T.O.boy G.T.O.boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 60sstuff View Post
A more accurate information on the 1964 headliner.

Per Eric White awesome factual book.
That's good information. One ex race car with low mileage Black exterior red interior car that I did a restoration back in the early 90's had a silver headliner from the factory, it was in great shape so we cleaned and left it as it was.

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Old 10-18-2022, 04:19 PM
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@
60sstuff...

Question. Those interior pics you posted.
Did the 64 come in a light and / or dark saddle?

Thank you.

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Old 10-18-2022, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 64Lemans View Post
@
60sstuff...

Question. Those interior pics you posted.
Did the 64 come in a light and / or dark saddle?

Thank you.
One saddle interior.
It’s the lighting.
One is inside a lighted building and the other outside.

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1) 65 GTO Survivor. 43,440 Original Miles. “Factory” Mayfair Maize Paint with Black Pinstripe, Black Cordova Top, Black Interior, OEM Numbers Matching Powertrain. Purchased from the Lady that bought it new. Baltimore Built (11A).
2) 66 GTO Survivor. “Factory” Cameo Ivory Paint with Red Pinstripe, Red Interior. OEM Numbers Matching Powertrain. Tri-Power (OEM Vacuum Linkage), Automatic "YR" code (1759 Produced). Fremont Built (01B), with the Rare 614 Option.
  #31  
Old 11-14-2022, 07:07 PM
John V. John V. is offline
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Way late commenting on this thread, haven't had much time to participate in the last several months. But as a fellow Fremont built '64 owner, wanted to offer some insights.

1. The Data Plate code 8680 is seen on the '64 Fremont Production Manifest record (aka PHS doc) in a Box labelled LOAD OR SEQ No.

I have logged these in an attempt to understand the purpose. Since it is coded on the Fisher Body Data Plate, the assumption is that it had relevance to Fisher. At the moment, I cannot recall if I was able to discern any pattern to this code.

2. 52 is almost certainly the body jig no. that this particular body assembly was welded up in. Early Fremont builds like mine typically have the 2 digits separated by a hyphen. The reason to track that was so that any subsequent fit up issues with a given body assembly could be tracked back to the specific jig so that any issues with the jig could be corrected.

3. I hope you ordered the Reproduction Window Sticker from Mike Noun (a member here). Mike knows how to format the '64 Fremont Window Stickers for as close to perfect accuracy as is possible. To my knowledge, PHS repro '64 Window Stickers are still NOT correct for Fremont cars. Mike's Window Stickers are OUTSTANDING.

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Old 11-14-2022, 07:12 PM
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Forgot to mention, only '64s first sold to Calif dealers were required to have the Closed Circuit Crankcase Ventilation System, and at that, only those built after Dec '63.

Your car was first sold to a Texas dealer so it got the 49 state PCV system.

My '64 was first sold to a Calif dealer but since it was built well before January '64, it also got the open vented PCV system.

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Old 11-17-2022, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 60sstuff View Post
If the car was sold “New” in the state of California it was fitted at the factory with the #614 option which was one of the first attempts at cleaner air.

Information below speaks of the Sealed oil fill cap and Pipe from air cleaner to LH valve cover.
Since your car is a late build, it may have had the #614 option.

The PHS will tell you many things about your ‘64 Lemans.
After reading this post I went back and looked at my PHS and it shows the car came with K24 Crankcase Vent. Car was built with W62 GTO option at the Fremont Plant date produced 3/3/64 D and delivered to Suburban Pontiac in Bellflower, Ca. Is it possible the car was shipped without the #614 option?

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Old 11-17-2022, 03:41 PM
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PHS
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  #35  
Old 11-17-2022, 04:15 PM
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614 is K24

614 is sales code
K24 is the UPC


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  #36  
Old 11-17-2022, 07:03 PM
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10-4 thanks for getting me clear on this I’ll make a note.

  #37  
Old 11-17-2022, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnta1 View Post
614 is K24

614 is sales code
K24 is the UPC

Not to be a pedant - but K24 is the RPO.

Some plants, like Pontiac, used the Five Group system. That's why you will see the GTO option described as the "382" sales code or showing "5N" on the cowl tag.

Some plants, like Fremont, used the UPC (Uniform Parts Classification) system, with the three character alpha numerics as RPO (Regular Production Option)* codes. This is where you would see W62 for the GTO option, or K24 for an emissions package, or C60 for Air Conditioning or B96 for wheel opening moldings.

GM still uses the UPC/RPO system today.

K

*There are also SEOs (Specialty Equipment Options) which are low volume runners used to create fleet vehicles or one-off builds for notable fleets like Ryder, Penske or UHaul. They are usually recognizable due to a number-alpha-number structure like "9C1" (Police option).

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Old 11-17-2022, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John V. View Post

1. The Data Plate code 8680 is seen on the '64 Fremont Production Manifest record (aka PHS doc) in a Box labelled LOAD OR SEQ No.

I have logged these in an attempt to understand the purpose. Since it is coded on the Fisher Body Data Plate, the assumption is that it had relevance to Fisher. At the moment, I cannot recall if I was able to discern any pattern to this code
A sequence number would be self explanatory. That number would start with 001 and count up one-for-one for each build. After several thousand vehicles have been built the number would be abbreviated (ie, 138680 would be written as 8680, or 680, or even 80) but would continue to increment up.

The sequence number is the "handle" that the assembly plant uses to keep all the parts in order and provide a sense check as the vehicles are going down the line. All coordinated material, including the cowl tag, service labels, VIN tag, Mulroney label (window sticker) and anything built up remotely (axles, front end sheetmetal, tire/wheel assemblies, seats) are tied to that sequence number.

Most plants have accumulators, or banks, after body shop, after paint, and after trim. These allow builds to back up and allow the downstream areas to draw from the bank and continue running in the event of production downtime (breakdown, or maintenance, or material shortage). This also allows for shuffling the build order, if desired, in order to balance the downstream workload or set a problematic vehicle aside.

Those plants, then, could have a unique build sequence number for the body shop, and then another unique/different build number for paint, and a different build number for trim, and a different build number for final (ie, General) assembly.

Fremont did not have these various accumulators and built straight through (a risky proposition, I would think, for as often as the body shop or paint shop went down). As such, I would suspect this "8680" body shop sequence number was the same all the way through final.

K

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