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Old 10-06-2022, 12:22 PM
JUDGE3 JUDGE3 is offline
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Default Oil pressure scarin me

Engine running great, no weird noises or clattering etc.

12 year old 455, low miles. routinely started during car restoration over the last 5 years.

fresh oil change V1 valvoline 20w50 and wix filter.

engine has always been around 40 to 50 psi at idle and up to 70 at high rpm.

suddenly its now 70 at idle and as rpm increases oil psi will climb and peg the 100psi gauge.

it has a new electric oil psi gauge reads as above. i installed a temp mechanical oil psi gauge to check. exact same reading.

hoping i dont have an internal engine problem, what would you say is going on?

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Old 10-06-2022, 12:46 PM
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My race car does this w 20/50 I have to let it warm up good or it’ll blow the seal out of the oil filter if I recall it when it’s cold.
Because it’s a race car it’s usually warmed up good and hot when I run it and the turbo really heats the oil quickly but if I tried to make a pass (late to time trials) it would push oil past the seal .

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Old 10-06-2022, 12:58 PM
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10w-30 in all my old Pontiacs and VWs.

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Old 10-06-2022, 01:02 PM
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The first thing I would do is to get a different brand filter on it and see if anything changes.

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Old 10-06-2022, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 25stevem View Post
The first thing I would do is to get a different brand filter on it and see if anything changes.
so I panicked to soon. but I have not seen that oil pressure symptom with this engine. ever.

I have always used V1 full synthetic 20w50 in it.

so the only change was to the wix oil filter. the cars sits so i have only used cheap fram filters. was going to do exactly as you suggested 25steve and put a fram back on.

I have always let it warm up to 160 or so. I drove it 5 miles up my dirt road and back letting it get good and operating hot around 180.

I am actually shocked, the oil psi settled back to what im used to. around 40 at idle, upper 70s at high rpm and did not want to climb much.

I find this odd, like I say, I know this engine well. so it must be the filter difference showing up at the cooler temps. 61 and still learning, shessh!

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Old 10-06-2022, 04:40 PM
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We all understand that a typical quality oil filter, not a race filter has a burst pressure of 300 PSI. Most race filters are 450-600 PSI. I run a 80 lb. pump on my high performance street Pontiacs. With 10W-30 oil, cold start oil prerssure is 105-110 PSI initially, falling to about 30-35 PSI at 1000 RPM idle. I have never had a filter seal leak any oil and certainly never had a can burst. I don't know why your oil pressure changed, but 100 PSI cold quickly dropping as the engine warms would not concern me. Not sure why you are using 20W-50 oil but a change to 10W-30 would drop the pressure to a range you might be more comfortable with.

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Old 10-06-2022, 04:52 PM
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I had a similar but opposite issue with my daily driver. I had really low oil pressure, the lifters were rattling and I thought the car was done. Not sure now why I decided to change the filter but I did and the issue went away. Again it was a wix filter.

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Old 10-06-2022, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
We all understand that a typical quality oil filter, not a race filter has a burst pressure of 300 PSI. Most race filters are 450-600 PSI. I run a 80 lb. pump on my high performance street Pontiacs. With 10W-30 oil, cold start oil prerssure is 105-110 PSI initially, falling to about 30-35 PSI at 1000 RPM idle. I have never had a filter seal leak any oil and certainly never had a can burst. I don't know why your oil pressure changed, but 100 PSI cold quickly dropping as the engine warms would not concern me. Not sure why you are using 20W-50 oil but a change to 10W-30 would drop the pressure to a range you might be more comfortable with.
thank you for that. interesting. It appears those that know far more than I use 10w30, going to switch to that next change. very curious now.

seemed a lot of racers used 20w50 and i did race with this engine so just stuck with it.

I cant recall for certain, my engine builder said something about cutting the spring in the oil pump? gain more pressure? not sure. I recall he welds a penny over the pick up tube to force all the oil thru the screen.

my aftermarket forged crankshaft is of the non cross drilled variety. dont know if that makes a pressure difference either?

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Old 10-06-2022, 08:06 PM
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thank you for that. interesting. It appears those that know far more than I use 10w30, going to switch to that next change. very curious now.

seemed a lot of racers used 20w50 and i did race with this engine so just stuck with it.

I cant recall for certain, my engine builder said something about cutting the spring in the oil pump? gain more pressure? not sure. I recall he welds a penny over the pick up tube to force all the oil thru the screen.

my aftermarket forged crankshaft is of the non cross drilled variety. dont know if that makes a pressure difference either?
On a Pontiac oil pump, adding a shim, not cutting the spring would increase the pressure, depending on the thickness of the shim. Not sure what he was doing with the penny. That is puzzling to me. Possibly he was shimming the spring with a penny? Although I think a penny would be too large a diameter. Also a penny is awfully soft and the hard spring would eventually dig into it and make some tiny shavings.

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Old 10-06-2022, 08:50 PM
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no, he welds a penny over the tube in the oil pump pickup to force all the oil thru the screen. been awhile, some part of the oil pump pick up.

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Old 10-06-2022, 09:05 PM
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Maybe he blocks the bypass in the oil filter adapter with a penny ?

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Old 10-07-2022, 07:54 AM
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Since the filter change was the only change made to create the issue, that is where I would start... I think that advice was spot on.

I have had my share of issues with Wix filters. I have had partial collapse in the filtration causing some restriction, and one that had a total collapse, loosing oil pressure entirely, plus threads improper cut, and even some issues with seals, seal crimp loose. Doesn’t seem to matter if it is the top end Gold line or the econo filter, the QC appears to be similar. I still used them because it is basically the only filter most part stores around me sell. Not a fan of fram, but if the filter bypass is functioning correct and the filter caused the pressure spikes, you likely had better filtration with the crappy fram filter. When the bypass opens because the flow can’t get thru the filter it sends unfiltered oil around thru the bypass. The better filter doesn’t always have better protection on bypass systems. Running 20w50 I usually do either a search and see if there is a filter with a higher pressure bypass on filters (internal bypassed filter), or either add more spring pressure, or plug the bypass (like Pontiac used).


Last edited by Jay S; 10-07-2022 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 10-07-2022, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay S View Post
Since the filter change was the only change made to create the issue, that is where I would start... I think that advice was spot on.

I have had my share of issues with Wix filters. I have had partial collapse in the filtration causing some restriction, and one that had a total collapse, loosing oil pressure entirely, plus threads improper cut, and even some issues with seals, seal crimp loose. Doesn’t seem to matter if it is the top end Gold line or the econo filter, the QC appears to be similar. I still used them because it is basically the only filter most part stores around me sell. Not a fan of fram, but if the filter bypass is functioning correct and the filter caused the pressure spikes, you likely had better filtration with the crappy fram filter. When the bypass opens because the flow can’t get thru the filter it sends unfiltered oil around thru the bypass. The better filter doesn’t always have better protection on bypass systems. Running 20w50 I usually do either a search and see if there is a filter with a higher pressure bypass on filters (internal bypassed filter), or either add more spring pressure, or plug the bypass (like Pontiac used).
well yet another product where quality is gone sounds like.

so way back in 78-79 I worked at a brand new place called rapid lube and oil while in high school. 10 min oil change place. anyway the "upgrade" oil filter we offered over the house brand was WIX. you could feel the weight of the filter well over the house brand. so actually, because I went to autozone and they had no pontiac filter in stock other than WIX I got it. and now this.

I had been using the cheap fram. well, I recall when fram was good. good greif this must mean ordering a filter online. guess i'll see if I can get AC or STP

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Old 10-07-2022, 09:23 AM
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Some (most) PMD pickup screens had the sheetmetal bar across the screen's center hole to act as a last resort oil supply for a clogged screen, or STP thick cold oil. I plugged em too but no penny, no weld forgot how i did it: Took screen out, plugged, crimped back in.

Yea, shimming the pump spring got 100 PSI type readings, cold, occasionally while warmed..good times.

Never lost a pump shaft though. May have wore the dizzy gear quicker. Unshimmed these days and happy.


Last edited by Half-Inch Stud; 10-07-2022 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 10-07-2022, 10:24 AM
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unless the motor is built to "race" specs (loose bearing tolerances) there is no need to use 20/50, especially in the midwest with cool/cold temps. racing or test & tunes a few weekends a year doesnt really qualify as a race engine if built to street tolerances.

too high of psi is pointless, 40-50 at idle is very high, rule of thumb is 10psi for every 1000 rpm, but the norm is around 20-30 at warm idle. i would definitely change the oil, think VR1 has a 10/30 or other specialty brands if you feel you need super high levels of zinc/zddp. but most name brand oils today have at least 900ppm plus other anti wear additives like moly that are enough for most "street" cams if they are fully broken in & arent too radical with heavy spring pressures.

fram has 4 levels of filters, the normal cheap priced orange ones, then the extra guard & the top levels tough guard & now they offer a ultra synthetic. the better ones are good filters. i also use mobil1 filters, i got a bunch at rock auto on clearance & they are rated very good with 10,000 mile protection. have heard AC are not what they used to be.

edit- fram has 6 different filter options now, 7 if you include their "race" filters. https://www.fram.com/products/oil-filters


Last edited by 78w72; 10-07-2022 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 10-07-2022, 12:36 PM
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Avoid the Fram filters in the orange boxes. There has been a lot of material on videos through You Tube about them and the poor design. I can't comment on the Tough Guard or the other higher grade Fram filters, but all are made overseas. Fram was a decent filter at one time but that has since changed since the company was sold and went overseas. Generally, Wix is considered very good as is Purolator and K&N. AC is made overseas now too so it seems it is hard to get away from overseas junk. Many people on YouTube have broken down several oil filters so take a look and use your own judgement.

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Old 10-07-2022, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUDGE3 View Post
well yet another product where quality is gone sounds like.
Take it with a grain of salt. I've been using Wix filters in all of my cars for a long time and never had any QC issues. And my cars are driven hard, including the countless days over many years that I've spent at the road course in my BMW, operating at WOT to redline for hours a day. Car has 145k miles and doesn't burn a single drop of oil despite lots of road course track use. I'm not at all suggesting Jay didn't experience those issues, but I'm just providing my own examples as a counterpoint.

Ultimately, no brand has a 100% perfect record, but Wix filters continue to be regarded as being among the best available.

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Old 10-07-2022, 12:51 PM
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I use the B-39 Baldwin oil filters.

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Old 10-07-2022, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JUDGE3 View Post
thank you for that. interesting. It appears those that know far more than I use 10w30, going to switch to that next change. very curious now.

seemed a lot of racers used 20w50 and i did race with this engine so just stuck with it.

I cant recall for certain, my engine builder said something about cutting the spring in the oil pump? gain more pressure? not sure. I recall he welds a penny over the pick up tube to force all the oil thru the screen.

my aftermarket forged crankshaft is of the non cross drilled variety. dont know if that makes a pressure difference either?
If someone is using a penny in a Pontiac oil pump its no wonder you are having issues. Penny's are zinc. Weld to steel ? Not good. Force the oil through what screen ? Welding anything over the pickup tube ? And zinc to steel is asking for a failure.
A penny is too large to use for a spring shim, and too soft if you cut one down. Cutting the spring lowers oil pressure.
You are better off using a oil pump and filter adapter as it. And with the by pass intact.

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Old 10-07-2022, 04:08 PM
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I still run Wix, 9 out of 10 engines here. Keep in mind, I am pulling from a really big sample of engines for the filter failures. That includes my industrial stuff, automotive and trucks. It would be difficult to even count all the engines I have Wix filters on. But, I do and have occasionally had an issue, and if the only change was the filter, that is were I would look first.

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